Nothing wrong with dumping plastic waste in the ocean?

[UrbanSage]

.... I think perhaps I can see where he is coming from (he being the teacher).

I don't want to dive into his claims. But I have a feeling the debate just comes down to a sense of responsibility.

Ultimately morals are man made, or at least verbalized versions of rules that ensured our survival as a species back in the day.
But saying we have a moral obligation to do anything is as entirely wrong as how strong I feel I do have them.
Using "morals" as a point of argument turns a debate religious when the argument is used to place you in the grander scheme of things. And I am not too keen on organized religions.
The universe will not bat an eyelash at our wiping out all species on this planet. Time will keep passing and there will be nothing left that cares.
This can sound sad, but I think it means I have a greater reason to keep a healthy planet around. It is a choice, nothing else.

As a human being with amazing capabilities, I can choose to live a life that ensures a rich environment for me and many more generations to live within. To make this happen I need to conduct myself in an above average responsible manner. And make choices that are selfless as opposed to think about me/my/I first.

And on a side note. Reading this makes me ask you to get his home address.
I have some plastic bags I can send his way. And perhaps a couple thousand of you guys can join me.... say send a couple of plastic bags his way once a week....

 

[Megalodon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14674094#post14674094 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
He's a real gem :lol:

Yeah, he's says that he can see the extinction of native insects from Hawaii having an impact, but not birds.

I can see insects definately having an impact, much more so than birds, but still fail to see why birds don't matter.

 

[billsreef]

I see he knows nothing of ecology. You can't seperate any form of native life from an ecosystem without impact. Heck, just look at invasive species to see what sort of impact a single misplaced species can cause.

 

[Poorcollegereef]

while this guy is funny, aggravating, and aloof... the sad part is that he is making my job harder...

Not only is the students suffering from misinformation... but they are going to get their @$$ handed to them when they meet me as their instructor on the college level (although I am over in the Planning and Landscape Architecture Dept.) Shesh, think about this guy, every student is going to be punished when/if they advance in educational level.

That teacher is just making my life more miserable and then I get called a bad TA shesh...

 

[Megalodon]

My apologies, I must have misinterpreted what he was saying. So maybe I'll try quoting him so his words can be taken in the correct context.

What he said was, the loss of Hawaii's native bird species wouldn't affect US, or anyone else around the world.

But when I explained that it would affect Hawaiins and their ecosystems on the islands, he said that was, and I quote, "just speculation."

When I told him that removing native birds from an ecosystem would affect that ecosystem, as well as the people who live there, he said, and again I quote, "tick...tick...tick...ding. Oh gee- your time ran out. Want another chance? Let's offer as example the disappearance of Kirtland's warbler or the Carolina parakeet and you can explain how it negatively affected the relevant ecosystems and affected tourism." (I'm not sure what time ran out but I think he was giving me the opportunity to explain why it would affect the people and the ecosystems and I apparently did not do so.)

I told him that there used to be 113 bird species on those Hawaiian islands that occurred nowhere else on Earth. Seventy-one are now extinct. Thirty-one more are threatened or endangered.

His response was basically that it's normal on islands for this to happen, even if human machines cause it, as if there is some sort of precendence for this happening before making it someone OK. I know that island animals, especially the specialized ones, have a difficult time surviving due to number of non-human related factors, but this is ridiculous.

Anyway, I'm at work, this is all I have time for at the moment. Let me know what you all think, thanks.

 

[billsreef]

Why do you bother giving him the time of day?

 

[power boat jim]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14681512#post14681512 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Why do you bother giving him the time of day?

After reading most of this thread, I must admit this guy will NEVER admit to other then what he preaches. I have seen his type before. Just substitute environment with creationism. Hard core creationists will dispute every fact and offer none of there own or will state things in a very general way. They also say things like" thats how its always been and thats how it will continue". Sound familiar?. They will turn away from undesputable physical evidence with a simple" how do you know that"? and will try to pick you apart scientific method as you explain it. They appeal more to emotion then reasoning as is the case here.

He is more of a polished debater then a scientist and,as is mentioned above, not worth the time of day.

It was entertaining though.

 

[Megalodon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14681512#post14681512 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Why do you bother giving him the time of day?

He follows us environmentally-concious people around to the various environmental discussions and basically trolls us. It's hard to avoid him except when I come here, LOL. To be honest, I'm not so sure I'd want to avoid him anyway, I like debate and find it to be a great learning experience. I gain arguments that work, lose the ones that don't, and see both sides of the story at the same time. Then there's the entertainment factor...

 

[Megalodon]

More from him on plastic in the ocean. Apparently not only is it just as natural as rocks, but it can also be a benefit to humankind as we can harvest it...

Plastics are hydrocarbons, chemically they're similar to oil and they're also biodegradeable. Just a matter of time.
Also, they can be harvested for use as fuel or even reused. The technology exists to break them down to their constituents- like CH4 aka methane. That can be burned to generate heat and electricity, but it produces CO2 as a waste product.
They won't contribute much to the need for fuel, but what the heck- its just a matter of a cost-effective technology. Kind of like harvesting cellulose for biofuel.

This is him on how we cannot do anything about plastic ending up in the ocean and animals are "stupid" for eating it...

People throw trash off ships. It's been happening for centuries. It's still happening every time a vessel crosses the oceans. It's banned, but it still happens. What do you suppose should be done?
As for stupid animals eating trash, it happens. I also find fish that eat smaller fish too big to swallow and they die.
Life is based on a series of judgements. Make the wrong ones often enough, you die young.

 

[KafudaFish]

Is it possible that he is really a 60's hippy who is green through and through? Instead of taking the normal approach of what is negative he is stating that things like plastic and extinction are not bad only to make his students pay attention. He may not teach science very well but he has taught you to do research on a subject and how to debate. You said yourself that you have won some debates but lost others.

Of course I could be wrong and he simply believes what he is teaching to your class.

 

[Megalodon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14682119#post14682119 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KafudaFish
He may not teach science very well but he has taught you to do research on a subject and how to debate. You said yourself that you have won some debates but lost others.

He's not my teacher. He didn't teach me to research and debate, it's just that I have gained knowledge and experience through debating with him and others like him. They don't intend to do that, help me in that way. I don't think I've lost any debate but I've certainly used arguments that have not worked. They just intend me making me feel like an idiot by winning the argument, LOL, but that's OK.

 

[Poorcollegereef]

Still one of my favorite quotes:
Never argue with an idiot... they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I love an intellectual debate for as long as their logic isn't flawed. There are a lot of "out there" academics, but many actually have good logic, just with a twisted sense of perception... I guess I am one too.

It sounds like poor logic, warped perceptions, and misinformation. I give you credit for having the patience...

 

[KafudaFish]

Good luck and continue the fight.

 

[Heinz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14686134#post14686134 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
Still one of my favorite quotes:
Never argue with an idiot... they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

lol, mine too, my favorit quote of all time :lol: