Novices need LED lighting questions answered.
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Ron Reefman
Active member
Actually EverGrow is a large Chinese factory that assembles led fixtures. They sell plant and greenhouse grow led fixtures all over the world. They private label the Photon V2 for Reef Breeders and they also make OceanRevive's T247 and some of ReefRadiance fixtures. So you are buying from the builder.
Found some good info searching AA.
I'm going to (try to) build an LED rack with primarily 12kWhite & 445nm Blue, with 2-3 RGB leds for small adjusting. Building a light is something I've been wanting to learn for other projects so this is a good excuse to get started.
For beginner corals and fish I'm thinking I need 100-200 PAR? And does 300W sound about right or should I go higher.
VirginiaMarine
New member
I had one of the previous generation Marineland LEDs and it worked fine for softies and LPS on my 36" 30 gallon tank. The old lights didn't have a timer built in so if you set it up on an external timer I think it was damaging the power supply. Mine had to be replaced a couple of times. The new ones have the timer built in. One thing, they have extenders so they can reach up to 36" or up to 48". Two lights will "fit" a 36" tank but the smaller one will have shadows in the upper corners. Go with the larger one for much better coverage.
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Ron Reefman
Active member
Both of those fixtures use 0.5 watt leds and are not well suited for coral in tanks of 24" depth. They probably shouldn't even be used for coral in an 18" deep tank. They are fine over a small 12" deep tank or a fish only tank. You can do WAY better for $100 to $150.
TokiHacker
New member
ok so on my JBJ frag tank I have the frag slightly lifted on 3inch circles that has eggcrate over it for placement. I have a 165w Chinese black box over it about 18inches high. is this high enough? light acclimation procedure? I have started it all the way on low but kinda need to know how high I need or can go?
I'll start by saying I'm very new to this.
I have a 150gallon which is 30" deep, i started with a dual t5 55watt 48" light and feel it was nowhere near adequate, so I replaced it with a current usa 4103 48watt led light. I'm starting to feel I may need more lighting, but I don't want to overkill it. Can anyone tell me if this lighting Is enough or if I should add more bars. I currently have polyps which are mostly within 5" of the floor. Leathers which are also located low And a couliflower coral approx 10" from the bottom.
I have a 150gallon which is 30" deep, i started with a dual t5 55watt 48" light and feel it was nowhere near adequate, so I replaced it with a current usa 4103 48watt led light. I'm starting to feel I may need more lighting, but I don't want to overkill it. Can anyone tell me if this lighting Is enough or if I should add more bars. I currently have polyps which are mostly within 5" of the floor. Leathers which are also located low And a couliflower coral approx 10" from the bottom.
TokiHacker
New member
luckily the ones you currently have do not need such high intense light but a tank that size I would assume you need something stronger. I am getting my 180 setup and I ordered 3 Chinese 165w black boxes.
TokiHacker
New member
get some kessils or some black boxes. I am sure people out there no more brands than that. Those are just the ones I use personally.
gonna need at least 165w probably 3.
you also need to learn about Ca, Mg, Alk if you don't already know.
Ron Reefman
Active member
Jhull9200, there are several questions regarding leds that if you answer, you can get some real help.
1) Do you want 1 long fixture or are 2 shorter fixtures or 3 pendant fixtures OK with you?
2) Do you want hanging fixtures or fixtures with legs? And do you have a canopy over the tank?
3) Do you have a budget in mind?
4) There are basic Chinese black boxes that work very well and come in several sizes. ($100ea. to $200ea.)
5) There are a few that have built-in timers to turn the 2 different channels (white & blue) on and off. ($140ea. to $200ea.)
6) Do you want sunrise/midday/sunset/moonlight control? These come in several sizes and are better looking than the Chinese black boxes (but good looks doesn't help coral grow). ($150 to $350)
7) Do you want more than 2 channel color control (like 6 or 8 channels)? These have sunrise/sunset ability as well. ($250 to $900)
8) Is a remote control good enough to set the lights or do you want WiFi or a computer to help set the lights? ($300+ to $900)
If I were in your position and just getting started, I'd go basic Chinese black box and keep it simple. They can grow any kind of coral in your tank, even at 30" deep. With a 6' long tank, 3 Mars Aqua or a couple of other brand fixtures at $100 to $125 each or 2 fixtures that are 32" long at about $175 each. Don't hold me to the price quotes, but I'm in the ballpark.
Once you know better what you are going to keep and you figure out what features you really want, then buy what you want and sell the used ones (or hang on to them as backups).
BTW, none of the features discussed above grow coral any better than the inexpensive Chinese black boxes with 3 watt leds. They give you the ability to make the tank look better for your pleasure, but do very, VERY little more for the coral. And there is no best fixture. People who tell you their's is the best are really telling you their's is the best for them. But it could be way off the mark for you. You need to buy what is best for you.
I like the control of sunrise/sunset because I'm home a lot and I like to watch the tank change as the day progresses. And I like having 6 channels of color control so I can fine tune the look in my tank. And a simple remote is all I need to set my lights, I don't care about WiFi or computer help setting them. I also have a fairly good budget so I could afford $900 for 2 fixtures ($600 for the big one and $300 for the small one... when they were on sale). Did I need these to grow healthy coral? Heck no. I used Chinese black boxes over my previous tanks that cost way less and they grew coral just as good as my new, more expensive ones. And mine are FAR from the most expensive. You'd need at least 2 and probably 3 Eco Tech Radions at $900 each (that's right... $2700 total) and they won't grow coral any better either!
This is what mine look like:
1) Do you want 1 long fixture or are 2 shorter fixtures or 3 pendant fixtures OK with you?
2) Do you want hanging fixtures or fixtures with legs? And do you have a canopy over the tank?
3) Do you have a budget in mind?
4) There are basic Chinese black boxes that work very well and come in several sizes. ($100ea. to $200ea.)
5) There are a few that have built-in timers to turn the 2 different channels (white & blue) on and off. ($140ea. to $200ea.)
6) Do you want sunrise/midday/sunset/moonlight control? These come in several sizes and are better looking than the Chinese black boxes (but good looks doesn't help coral grow). ($150 to $350)
7) Do you want more than 2 channel color control (like 6 or 8 channels)? These have sunrise/sunset ability as well. ($250 to $900)
8) Is a remote control good enough to set the lights or do you want WiFi or a computer to help set the lights? ($300+ to $900)
If I were in your position and just getting started, I'd go basic Chinese black box and keep it simple. They can grow any kind of coral in your tank, even at 30" deep. With a 6' long tank, 3 Mars Aqua or a couple of other brand fixtures at $100 to $125 each or 2 fixtures that are 32" long at about $175 each. Don't hold me to the price quotes, but I'm in the ballpark.
Once you know better what you are going to keep and you figure out what features you really want, then buy what you want and sell the used ones (or hang on to them as backups).
BTW, none of the features discussed above grow coral any better than the inexpensive Chinese black boxes with 3 watt leds. They give you the ability to make the tank look better for your pleasure, but do very, VERY little more for the coral. And there is no best fixture. People who tell you their's is the best are really telling you their's is the best for them. But it could be way off the mark for you. You need to buy what is best for you.
I like the control of sunrise/sunset because I'm home a lot and I like to watch the tank change as the day progresses. And I like having 6 channels of color control so I can fine tune the look in my tank. And a simple remote is all I need to set my lights, I don't care about WiFi or computer help setting them. I also have a fairly good budget so I could afford $900 for 2 fixtures ($600 for the big one and $300 for the small one... when they were on sale). Did I need these to grow healthy coral? Heck no. I used Chinese black boxes over my previous tanks that cost way less and they grew coral just as good as my new, more expensive ones. And mine are FAR from the most expensive. You'd need at least 2 and probably 3 Eco Tech Radions at $900 each (that's right... $2700 total) and they won't grow coral any better either!
This is what mine look like:
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Ron Reefman
Active member
Oops, double post.
Thank you for the replies. It seems I was l way off again
Tokihacker I have been slowly learning more and more about that. I have so much more to learn and understand. I knew going into this it would be a harder hobby to keep up on but really had no idea it could be so complicated.
Ron those are beautiful tanks. It was seeing tanks like that that turned me onto this. To answer your questions I don't mind how many fixtures I have I'd rather have one that's 48" but if it's more realistic to do smaller ones I'd go that route. Ideally with legs as I do plan on putting a canopy on the top.
I don't need Wi-Fi or 28 colors I believe the one I currently have has white and blue at 8am it turns on does a sunrise then goes white till 7pm when it starts a sunset mode then does night mode till maybe 3am If incould get another light that is similar to that of be thrilled.
Oh and the cheaper the better! Haha
Tokihacker I have been slowly learning more and more about that. I have so much more to learn and understand. I knew going into this it would be a harder hobby to keep up on but really had no idea it could be so complicated.
Ron those are beautiful tanks. It was seeing tanks like that that turned me onto this. To answer your questions I don't mind how many fixtures I have I'd rather have one that's 48" but if it's more realistic to do smaller ones I'd go that route. Ideally with legs as I do plan on putting a canopy on the top.
I don't need Wi-Fi or 28 colors I believe the one I currently have has white and blue at 8am it turns on does a sunrise then goes white till 7pm when it starts a sunset mode then does night mode till maybe 3am If incould get another light that is similar to that of be thrilled.
Oh and the cheaper the better! Haha
Ron Reefman
Active member
Most, and maybe all, the Current USA led fixtures use 0.5 watt leds that just aren't strong enough for tanks that are 18" or deeper. All the other brands use 3w and even 5w leds which makes a HUGE difference.
If you are OK with the black box look, MarsAqua has good basic fixtures with manual dimmers, ViparSpectra has built-in digital dimmers and timers which are nice and finally Euphotica has full sunrise/sunset capability. The Reef Breeders Photon V2 (which I have) has all that as well as 6 channel color control and a much better looking case. They all have 32" versions (so you'd need 2) and 16" versions (so you'd need 3). Each one is more expensive than the next as the features and options get fancier. Just remember, the more expensive fixtures don't grow coral any better than the cheapest, they just have more things for you to play with and maybe make the tank look a bit more to your liking. But 3 MarsAqua 16" fixtures will certainly grow coral as well as any other, still has blue and white channels for reasonable color control and would only cost you about $300. Two of the RB Photon V2's would cost $680. And IMHO there is very little reason to spend more than that.
If you are OK with the black box look, MarsAqua has good basic fixtures with manual dimmers, ViparSpectra has built-in digital dimmers and timers which are nice and finally Euphotica has full sunrise/sunset capability. The Reef Breeders Photon V2 (which I have) has all that as well as 6 channel color control and a much better looking case. They all have 32" versions (so you'd need 2) and 16" versions (so you'd need 3). Each one is more expensive than the next as the features and options get fancier. Just remember, the more expensive fixtures don't grow coral any better than the cheapest, they just have more things for you to play with and maybe make the tank look a bit more to your liking. But 3 MarsAqua 16" fixtures will certainly grow coral as well as any other, still has blue and white channels for reasonable color control and would only cost you about $300. Two of the RB Photon V2's would cost $680. And IMHO there is very little reason to spend more than that.
Kevin Guthrie
Member
When it was time to replace my 400w mh bulb I looked at going LED. But I'm not sure that what I see on line makes sense. For example the Mars Aqua "300w" fixture, that's the name of it, states that it is really 190 watts and states amp draw that backs that up. So what does the "300w" mean?
If I were to buy two of those to replace a 400w mh, I assume at full output it would be brighter and more par than the mh. Is that correct?
If I were to buy two of those to replace a 400w mh, I assume at full output it would be brighter and more par than the mh. Is that correct?
Ron Reefman
Active member
The fixture has 100 leds that are rated to be driven at 3 watts each, thus 300. They, drive theirs at about 1.9 watts, thus the 190 watts. BTW most other manufacturers drive theirs at 2.2 watts. Why MarsAqua uses the lower power driver is a mystery to me. You might look at ViparSpectra, Euphotica, Ocean Revive or other brands if you think the extra 30 watts from each fixture is helpful.
Whether 1 or 2 MarsAqua will produce as much PAR as a 400 watt MH is a good question. My best, semi-educated guess is yes, but it depends. How far off the water each fixture is, how much square footage of tank are you trying to cover, the quality and age of a 400w MH bulb and the fact that the MarsAqua uses a weaker driver than other brands. I say semi-educated guess because my experience comes from the fact that I had a MH fixture with two 250w bulbs, two 150w and four t5 bulbs that were 39w each. That's 800 watts of MH plus almost 160 watts of t5. I replaced that with two 300 watt led fixtures and ran them at 65% power (roughly 400 watts) and they did produce slightly more PAR and my corals did just as well with leds as they did with MH?t5.
Don't try to compare the MH to the led based on wattage. They do not work the same way and the light photons produced by each is not a relationship to the wattage each use. Wattage make be helpful comparing one MH to another or one t5 to another, but not to compare a MH to an led or a t5 to an led. The led has a lens and all the light produced is focused mostly down in a narrow 120 degree or 90 degree beam which makes them much more efficient.
Kevin Guthrie
Member
Thanks @Ron Reefman! Sounds like at same height/same tank the fixtures should at least have equivalent PAR which is what I am really looking for.
Having long ago replaced my household parabolic spots (the other PAR in bulbs) with LEDs I appreciate the added efficiency that comes from the individual reflectors and lenses on each diode. Given a 5 year life expectancy and less heat/more photons per watt LEDs seem like the way to go. Still I see plenty of posts about switching back to MH which makes me wonder what I am missing.
Having long ago replaced my household parabolic spots (the other PAR in bulbs) with LEDs I appreciate the added efficiency that comes from the individual reflectors and lenses on each diode. Given a 5 year life expectancy and less heat/more photons per watt LEDs seem like the way to go. Still I see plenty of posts about switching back to MH which makes me wonder what I am missing.
Ron Reefman
Active member
Leds do have some issues, like shadowing under overhangs and ledges and even under dense branching coral like a pocillopora or birdsnest. They can also have red or green shadow edges or disco effect in the shimmer. MH have far less shadowing and no disco effect at all.
However, leds offer instant color control, the ability to ramp up and down for sunrise & sunset, the ability to do moonlights, the heavy blue lighting that make fluorescing corals glow, they run cooler and they use less electricity. Some of the newer led fixtures are even getting better looking than MH or t5 fixtures.
Leds used to be a lot more expensive than t5 or MH, but that's not true anymore. There are good, basic led fixtures out there for under $100.
Personally, I don't ever see myself switching back to MH. The new t5 that can be dimmed is interesting, but it's as expensive as anled fixture that can do 6 channel color control with a remote rather than buying and changing bulbs. Until something new AND better comes along, I think leds will just gain more and more popularity.
However, leds offer instant color control, the ability to ramp up and down for sunrise & sunset, the ability to do moonlights, the heavy blue lighting that make fluorescing corals glow, they run cooler and they use less electricity. Some of the newer led fixtures are even getting better looking than MH or t5 fixtures.
Leds used to be a lot more expensive than t5 or MH, but that's not true anymore. There are good, basic led fixtures out there for under $100.
Personally, I don't ever see myself switching back to MH. The new t5 that can be dimmed is interesting, but it's as expensive as anled fixture that can do 6 channel color control with a remote rather than buying and changing bulbs. Until something new AND better comes along, I think leds will just gain more and more popularity.
Crooked Reef
Active member
For some reason the search function isn't working for me today, even though I am logged in it says I'm not. Will two ecotech Xr15 pros be sufficient to keep all corals I may want to in a standard 90 gallon or am I limited to what types of corals or a clam I can have?
