Novices need LED lighting questions answered.

[Ron Reefman]

Thanks for starting this! Comes at a perfect time for me, as I'm about to get my 75g box of air back wet again and full of reef. I need to refurbish the hood, and had MH + actinics, but am considering LEDs. Looking forward to learning more from others' experience.

If you need help understanding anything about light for corals or led fixtures, I'll be happy to try and help.

Getting ready to introduce some soft corals and LPS to my 50 gallon tank and want to upgrade my lighting prior. Very narrow tank as you can see. Only 12 inches wide. Was considering 2 AI Prime's since it is soo narrow but am also considering 2 of the EchoTech Radion XR15w G4 Pros or 2 of the Nano Box Reef Duo Plus Ms. I really like supporting the entrepreneurs out there and Box Reef appears to produce an excellent product. EchoTech as we know is on the short list of top of the line systems. Any feedback on either/both appreciated. Too much light? Not enough?

Thanks all.

50 G. 48x12x18

You are looking at some better quality, and pricey fixtures. Do you really need all the bells and whistles those fixtures offer? That adds a lot of cost to the fixture if you really don't need sunrise/sunset or 6 channel spectrum control. What kind of coral do you have, or do you plan for? Is there a reason you are using such a narrow tank? Why over spend on light fixtures when you can light that tank for under $200 with good leds and spend the rest on stuff to go in the tank. I'm not saying you shouldn't use the brands you mentioned, I'm just curious if you are spending your money wisely or if you aren't concerned about the cost?

 

[hitawaah]

I am setting up my 300 (96X24X30)gallon tank now. I have read this entire thread and I have just purchased the kessil AP700 to go along with my 4 Radion xr30w pros. At the time of buying the radions I hadn't heard much about the AP700. That being said I am gonna put the kessil right in the middle for the shimmer and run the radions on the outside. I am using a canopy and am planning on mounting the kessil 7" off the top of the water and the radions about 9" off. That will leave about 3"of space from the canopy for the radions and 5 inches of space for the kessil. I have the new Apex and the reeflink, I know they do the same thing but reeflink is cloud based whereas my apex will keep running my lights ad a lot of other stuff proper if my wifi should go down. Hopefully with most of the back open and ice cap fans blowing I should have enough room between the top of the leds and the canopy to keep the leds cool. I will use glass to keep the leds dry. I will be eventually getting into SPS maybe LPS and giant clams when my tank is completely cycled (I have about 400 lbs of dry rock pukani and marco that I will be seeding) and the parameters are staying solid for at least three to six months, I know not to rush the process. I do not want to kill coral because of stupidity. I am reading as much as I can about coral I have read a ton I understand PUR and PAR. Mainly my question is I am gonna start with fish, Blonde naso tang and a white cheeked\gold rimmed powder brown tang after the tank is cycled so where should I start my leds roughly? I can give you a list of all the equipment I have but that will take a loooong thread let's just say I'm running a refugium with algae have a tunze 9030 skimmer and use rodi water with an ATO. Also this is a great thread between Ron Reefman, SK8r, and rfurst there is so much knowledge to gain from them it's awesome, no offense to anyone else. Thanks for taking the time to read this I welcome any suggestions and advice you give is greatly appreciated as this is my first full reef tank, I've had FOWLR and FO for about 20years off and on.

 

[hitawaah]

Mainly my question is I am gonna start with fish, Blonde naso tang and a white cheeked\gold rimmed powder brown tang after the tank is cycled so where should I start my leds roughly? So I did't get anyone to answer maybe my post was too long but I know with 5 leds there is a lot of light (I'm actually buying a seneye par meter kit right now) so even with that knowledge I don't know where a good starting point is. I'm guessing 30/40% it's only going to be fish and live rock I want coralline algae but not other algae problems due to the light being too high. Anyone have any advice for a newbie?

 

[Grimreaperz]

Mainly my question is I am gonna start with fish, Blonde naso tang and a white cheeked\gold rimmed powder brown tang after the tank is cycled so where should I start my leds roughly? So I did't get anyone to answer maybe my post was too long but I know with 5 leds there is a lot of light (I'm actually buying a seneye par meter kit right now) so even with that knowledge I don't know where a good starting point is. I'm guessing 30/40% it's only going to be fish and live rock I want coralline algae but not other algae problems due to the light being too high. Anyone have any advice for a newbie?

Are you talking about positioning above the tank or what intensity to start at?

Starting intensity will depend on your livestock just fish. Start at 10% blue and 5% white and work your way up SLOWLY and see how they react. As far as position above the tank the lights manufacturer specs should help with that.

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[Grimreaperz]

That's being said anytime you add new live stock you need to acclimate them to your light. Some do this by adjusting intensity other do it with tank placement (corals only) just do a lot of research on the livestock you want. Fish aren't to picky on lights. It's coral that require the more attention when it comes to lights.

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[hitawaah]

Are you talking about positioning above the tank or what intensity to start at?

Starting intensity will depend on your livestock just fish. Start at 10% blue and 5% white and work your way up SLOWLY and see how they react. As far as position above the tank the lights manufacturer specs should help with that.

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Thanks for responding, yeah I'm talking about intensity. I have 4radion xr30w pros and a kessil ap 700 they are going in a canopy and I'm using glass lids. I have read the specs and have the setup designed for the light height. If you didn't read my first post I'm building a 300 gallon reef tank (96X24X30) so it's deep. I'm putting in roughly 400lbs. of dry rock (pukani and marco reef) seeded with nice live rock. After it cycles I'm going to start with some of the fish I mentioned. Once my parameters are stable for a few months then I will add some beginner corals. I've never done a reef I've had FOWLR and FO for over 20 years but never inverts, corals, and clams. I have never ran led lighting. So I know most of the fish I want wont be too bothered by light intensity but I still need a starting off point and I have no clue where to begin. I know when I add the corals the lights have an acclimation mode I can put them into then slowly ramp up. I also can place the coral deeper or higher depending on its needs. Thanks for the input at least I have something to go on for intensity purposes.

 

[Grimreaperz]

Yeah IMO it's always better to start lower then high. As the damage caused from not enough light is far less severe then that caused from too much.

I'm still quite new to the hobby myself but this would be my best guess. As melting or bleaching of corals can happen quite quickly under too much light.

I would say good starting point would be 10-15%blue and 5-10% white.

I only have cheap China LEDS and this is usually where I start the acclimation cycle with new corals. And gradually bring it up over the course of a month or so.

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[Ron Reefman]

If it's going to be fish only, why did you buy so much light? In fact, the fish don't need high PAR light and having high PAR light over a fish only tank is just asking for algae.

Do you intend to add corals in the future?

 

[hitawaah]

If it's going to be fish only, why did you buy so much light? In fact, the fish don't need high PAR light and having high PAR light over a fish only tank is just asking for algae.

Do you intend to add corals in the future?[/QUOTE

Ron, it's not going to be FO i'm just starting with a few fish that I had mentioned in a prior post (tangs and such) then once I know my water parameters are stable for a few months then I'll move on to corals, I want to have sps and some clams way down the road. But I don't want to kill corals by just putting them in and learning on the fly. I'm still doing a lot of reading on how to keep sps healthy, thriving, and growing I don't want them to be just hanging on. Plus everyone has their way of doing it and there are a lot of different ways to get to the right water parameters. I know I need a few more pieces of equipment for corals unless I want to buy bottles to keep my parameters in the right ranges for sps. Thanks for the input though. Any advice you have for me I'd appreciate it.

 

[hitawaah]

Yeah IMO it's always better to start lower then high. As the damage caused from not enough light is far less severe then that caused from too much.

I'm still quite new to the hobby myself but this would be my best guess. As melting or bleaching of corals can happen quite quickly under too much light.

I would say good starting point would be 10-15%blue and 5-10% white.

I only have cheap China LEDS and this is usually where I start the acclimation cycle with new corals. And gradually bring it up over the course of a month or so.

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Yeah I read a post that Ron was talking about that there is not much difference between the black boxes from china or wherever and the expensive ones that I have. His points were valid, wish I had his advice when I was dropping thousands on lighting, but it is too late now. I'm not unhappy with them they have a lot of features but I don't think the corals care much about a lot of them besides acclimation mode. Just saying there is sooo much to learn about reefkeeping and more to the point about sps and leds. Each corals has its own specific needs lighting, water flow, and parameters. Then leds are all different with their intensity and programs that you can run. I'm reading every day and asking questions as I get closer to putting this beast all together, I'm only a week or two to having it put together still a lot to be done though. Anyway I kinda got off topic. Thanks for the input!

 

[rookum]

I just bought a turnkey setup from a guy. LEDs are euphotica hoods, 16". I can't seem to get them dialed in without Cyano. I know they're 90° optical lenses. He had them hanging way too high. I'm lost. And chemiclean is making it impossible to use the skimmer.

 

[Grimreaperz]

I just bought a turnkey setup from a guy. LEDs are euphotica hoods, 16". I can't seem to get them dialed in without Cyano. I know they're 90° optical lenses. He had them hanging way too high. I'm lost. And chemiclean is making it impossible to use the skimmer.

How old is the tank? Cyano is quite common in new tanks. Part of the cycling maturing process. Try to reduce feeding. And increase flow at the sand bed level.

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[Grimreaperz]

Yeah I read a post that Ron was talking about that there is not much difference between the black boxes from china or wherever and the expensive ones that I have. His points were valid, wish I had his advice when I was dropping thousands on lighting, but it is too late now. I'm not unhappy with them they have a lot of features but I don't think the corals care much about a lot of them besides acclimation mode. Just saying there is sooo much to learn about reefkeeping and more to the point about sps and leds. Each corals has its own specific needs lighting, water flow, and parameters. Then leds are all different with their intensity and programs that you can run. I'm reading every day and asking questions as I get closer to putting this beast all together, I'm only a week or two to having it put together still a lot to be done though. Anyway I kinda got off topic. Thanks for the input!

Yeah these China LEDS definitely don't have features and it's all manual adjustments. So you do pay for what you get in regards of features. It seems you are on the right track. Just stay on the lower side when fish only. And then once you start adding corals that acclimation mode seems pretty hands free awesome!

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[hitawaah]

Yeah these China LEDS definitely don't have features and it's all manual adjustments. So you do pay for what you get in regards of features. It seems you are on the right track. Just stay on the lower side when fish only. And then once you start adding corals that acclimation mode seems pretty hands free awesome!

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That is the plan I'm gonna start them low other than the kessil it will not run under 20% but the radions will and then ramp up the intensity weekly like 5%. I'll be paying attention to my fish to see if their behavior changes and also looking to keep algae down to a minimum. I'll use the same approach with corals but i believe corals will be easier than fish to tell if the light is too high. Thanks for the input.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Yeah these China LEDS definitely don't have features and it's all manual adjustments. So you do pay for what you get in regards of features.

I can't let that comment slide by.

There are several Chinese fixtures sold by Reef Breeders, Mars Aqua, Euphotica and Reef Radiance to name several off the top of my head, that have built-in controllers to do sunrise/sunset and special programs like sunny, cloudy, moon, and custom. The new Reef Breeder Photon V2 and EverGrow IT series of fixtures even have 6 channels of led control, so it's got most of what the expensive high end fixtures have at half the price.

I've had Radion leds and they really don't have anything worth double the cost over the Reef Breeders V2 IMHO.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I just bought a turnkey setup from a guy. LEDs are euphotica hoods, 16". I can't seem to get them dialed in without Cyano. I know they're 90° optical lenses. He had them hanging way too high. I'm lost. And chemiclean is making it impossible to use the skimmer.

Lighting probably isn't your issue. Lights can have some effect on cyanobacteria, but there are lots of other contributing factors as well. If you are trying to get rid of the cyano strictly by adjusting your lights you will likely be unsuccessful.

The one thing you can do is siphon out all the cyano and then run with your lights off for 3 days. Or 1 day with lights off and 3 or 4 days with just blue leds (the corals will be happier but the cyano won't like it.

But your real problem is probably flow (as Grimreaperz said) and nutrient (including carbon).

 

[Grimreaperz]

I can't let that comment slide by.

There are several Chinese fixtures sold by Reef Breeders, Mars Aqua, Euphotica and Reef Radiance to name several off the top of my head, that have built-in controllers to do sunrise/sunset and special programs like sunny, cloudy, moon, and custom. The new Reef Breeder Photon V2 and EverGrow IT series of fixtures even have 6 channels of led control, so it's got most of what the expensive high end fixtures have at half the price.

I've had Radion leds and they really don't have anything worth double the cost over the Reef Breeders V2 IMHO.

Oh yeah sorry I was talking about mine in particular I paid 150 shipped for Globalstar 300w 5wLeD x 60
Only has 2 channels with manual dials. I am.sure there are other China specials but you will still even pay more for those with the feature then those without. Just saying in general you get what you pay for. same in computers. I'm sure if I was to fork over an extra 100 or so I could have gotten cool features too. All still cheaper then the Radions but still paying that extra dollar for that convenience factor.

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[hitawaah]

I can't let that comment slide by.

There are several Chinese fixtures sold by Reef Breeders, Mars Aqua, Euphotica and Reef Radiance to name several off the top of my head, that have built-in controllers to do sunrise/sunset and special programs like sunny, cloudy, moon, and custom. The new Reef Breeder Photon V2 and EverGrow IT series of fixtures even have 6 channels of led control, so it's got most of what the expensive high end fixtures have at half the price.

I've had Radion leds and they really don't have anything worth double the cost over the Reef Breeders V2 IMHO.

Hello there Ron,
Yeah I was referring to you in the above post I had read your posts in another thread where you and another gentleman had a real healthy discussion about the differences. For me it was a real eye opener like I said probably too late now but useful in the future if I need a light. You point out a lot of aspects people just automatically say oh their cheap black boxes they must be junk whereas they aren't (some kinds might be) but you named the manufacturers and the model that you personally use. Thanks for your input!

 

[Ron Reefman]

Oh yeah sorry I was talking about mine in particular I paid 150 shipped for Globalstar 300w 5wLeD x 60
Only has 2 channels with manual dials. I am.sure there are other China specials but you will still even pay more for those with the feature then those without. Just saying in general you get what you pay for. same in computers. I'm sure if I was to fork over an extra 100 or so I could have gotten cool features too. All still cheaper then the Radions but still paying that extra dollar for that convenience factor.

No problem. It just seemed like you were throwing out the baby with tha bathwater, so to speak. There is a lot of junk from China, and even some of their better products still have some very weak points. But not all Chinese products are cheap junk. And I use some of those black box leds with manual dimmers. The light they produce will still grow most anything.

Hello there Ron,
Yeah I was referring to you in the above post I had read your posts in another thread where you and another gentleman had a real healthy discussion about the differences. For me it was a real eye opener like I said probably too late now but useful in the future if I need a light. You point out a lot of aspects people just automatically say oh their cheap black boxes they must be junk whereas they aren't (some kinds might be) but you named the manufacturers and the model that you personally use. Thanks for your input!

Any time. I don't claim to be an expert, but I have over 12 years of experience and keep 4 tanks (400+ gallons total). Experience counts for something! :beer:

 

[hitawaah]

Any time. I don't claim to be an expert, but I have over 12 years of experience and keep 4 tanks (400+ gallons total). Experience counts for something!

In my opinion experience is the biggest part of this hobby. You can read all day and it helps but until your actually doing it or dealing with an issue that's where experience kicks in and mistakes don't get made as often. Also I really appreciate your willingness everyday to help people you don't know on this forum by sharing your experience and knowledge. I know you've answered a few of my questions and helped me make the right decision or point me in the right direction. People like you make this forum great cause you can get answers from qualified experienced people who have went through some of the same stuff as you. Please keep up the great work! Thank you.