+1 - my fish and coral love this stuff
Nutrient level in SPS tank
- Thread starter dzhuo
- Start date
+1 - my fish and coral love this stuff
dzhuo
Active member
OK. Sounds good. I am not much a fan of tangs because of their solitary nature. Since my vision of a reef is really lots of small fish with large coral heads, I will get a bunch of chromis this weekend. I will likely start with 9 so this will roughly double my fish population. Let's see what happen.
My 150g is custom and it's 4'x3'x2' so it's not 30" hight but 24".
I have seen people with this skimmer in smaller tank without fish and don't feed. All they have is LR and yet it produces more skimmer than mine. Go figure.
My 150g is custom and it's 4'x3'x2' so it's not 30" hight but 24".
I have seen people with this skimmer in smaller tank without fish and don't feed. All they have is LR and yet it produces more skimmer than mine. Go figure.
BuckeyeTodd
New member
I agree with all of your posts here...I had similar experiences...added more fish, started feeding variety of frozen food daily, took the gfo offline, and boom corals look better...I have seen my po4 on Hanna Checker go from 0.00 to 0.06 and corals have never looked better, I think GFO is strong stuff and generally leads to 0 po4 which is too low IMO
dublo8
New member
exactly what I use. There is no need to get their coral version either. it's the same stuff as the original just no large chunks for the fishies.
Once a week I shut my skimmer and my powerheads off. I feed the fish rods original but I mix in just a little reef roids from polyp labs and a little reef chili from BRS. Your polyp extension is sometimes a little better when the flow slows down for a bit.
Alex T.
Active member
dzhuo,
You may not be a fan of tangs, but you need to find some poop making fish. You skimmer is SERIOUS. I like the look of Anthias and other small fish bobbing in and out of the reef as well, but the problem is that you want fish that can consume enough food to create the fuel you're looking for. My Chromis and Anthias are the first at the water's surface to get their meals, but it's my tangs that come in and do the busy work. You may need a good amount of small fish to generate what your skimmer is looking for. I myself have a skimmer that's rated to skim an SPS tank twice my volume. My fish load borders on ridiculous IMO. The Vlamingi is small and will one day be transfered to a larger 400 gallon that I'm currently planning.
A word of advice on the Chromis...make sure they're almost all the same size. The odd sized ones I've found will be killed off by the others if not pulled.
Being new to SPS I think you're taking the "clean water" filtration philosophies to the extreme. There's a time and a place for that much carbon and GFO, but you're no where near needing all that stuff yet. Maybe even slow down the volume of your water changes as well. If you look through some of the best tanks in the TOTM threads you'll see that many of the most colorful and envious tanks have considerable bioloads with measurable nitrate...in some cases 5 - 10 ppm.
Good luck and keep us posted. Welcome to the game!
You may not be a fan of tangs, but you need to find some poop making fish. You skimmer is SERIOUS. I like the look of Anthias and other small fish bobbing in and out of the reef as well, but the problem is that you want fish that can consume enough food to create the fuel you're looking for. My Chromis and Anthias are the first at the water's surface to get their meals, but it's my tangs that come in and do the busy work. You may need a good amount of small fish to generate what your skimmer is looking for. I myself have a skimmer that's rated to skim an SPS tank twice my volume. My fish load borders on ridiculous IMO. The Vlamingi is small and will one day be transfered to a larger 400 gallon that I'm currently planning.
A word of advice on the Chromis...make sure they're almost all the same size. The odd sized ones I've found will be killed off by the others if not pulled.
Being new to SPS I think you're taking the "clean water" filtration philosophies to the extreme. There's a time and a place for that much carbon and GFO, but you're no where near needing all that stuff yet. Maybe even slow down the volume of your water changes as well. If you look through some of the best tanks in the TOTM threads you'll see that many of the most colorful and envious tanks have considerable bioloads with measurable nitrate...in some cases 5 - 10 ppm.
Good luck and keep us posted. Welcome to the game!
Alex T.
Active member
Just to clarify....I'm speaking 5 - 10 parts per million nitrate.
I've referred to Mark Poletti and Keith Berkelheimer's tanks quite a few times when people talk about running their systems so clean. Mark measures between 5 -10 ppm nitrate with an ATB 1050 so you know there's some serious feeding going on in that tank. Also, Keith has stated that he likes to run his tank a little "dirty" because it helps out with his colors. You'll find there's more room for error than you think. Feed it heavy, skim it heavy and keep up on your maintenance.
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/58-tank-of-the-month
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-03/totm/index.php
I've referred to Mark Poletti and Keith Berkelheimer's tanks quite a few times when people talk about running their systems so clean. Mark measures between 5 -10 ppm nitrate with an ATB 1050 so you know there's some serious feeding going on in that tank. Also, Keith has stated that he likes to run his tank a little "dirty" because it helps out with his colors. You'll find there's more room for error than you think. Feed it heavy, skim it heavy and keep up on your maintenance.
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/58-tank-of-the-month
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-03/totm/index.php
dzhuo
Active member
I will keep everyone post. I won't be adding a tang, at least not now. I am not convince (yet) that you need tangs in order to generate enough bio-load. Tangs and wrasses are typical solitary fish I would like to avoid. My plan is to have my tank dominated by small active fish. Eventually I will have roughly anywhere from 30 to 40 fish among a few large coral heads and have them dart and chase among the branches. This is my vision of a typical coral reef and I try to replicate this behavior.
I will likely end up with a single large fish but the one I have in mind is hard to find in the US. I have not seen a single one on sale anywhere yet and I bet it's expensive when it does show up.
Thx and appreciate all the helps so far.
I will likely end up with a single large fish but the one I have in mind is hard to find in the US. I have not seen a single one on sale anywhere yet and I bet it's expensive when it does show up.
Thx and appreciate all the helps so far.
dzhuo
Active member
I try not to look at TOTM because it makes me sad.
J/K. All TOTMs are nice but there are countless examples of over stock, over feed, excess nutrient so there is a balance. Hopefully one day, my tank will look half as good as any of the TOTM but you can clearly see my vision of a coral reef is different than a lot of others. Instead of going for a lot of variety of different kinds and colors of corals, my approach is to have a few larger ones. I am much after the overall artistic apparent of the tank (proper placement, color composition, spacing, strong focus point etc) than focusing on the individual corals.
SPSEMPIRE
New member
ditto, that's what I do as well. Mainly because I'm lazy and it just happens that sometimes you can do more to you reef aquarium by doing less...
Gyr
New member
I think your coral color is fine. Better than fine, actually, I think it is really good. It seems like a blue milli's brown areas turning blue and a green acro's brown areas turning green is a desired goal. The photos you provided to illustrate your color change concerns show what I feel are improvements.
I agree that I like my SPS to have good PE, and I worry when they don't, but from what I have read, PE is not a known indicator of SPS health. I used to have a coral-nipping clown goby in my tank and daytime PE was non-existant. Since I removed the goby (several months ago) my SPS PE has been good. Except that I like the way the SPS looks with good PE, I really haven't noticed any sig change in coloration or growth.
I have never owned any of the fish you have in your tank, are any of them known to nip at coral polyps?
I don't know what to make of your lack of skimmate. I didn't bother to read the skimmer thread you refrenced. Did you try it in a buddy's sump to see if it pulled skimmate in their system (to make sure it is functioning correctly)?
I'll say it again, I think your SPS color looks good. I also like the overall plan for your tank...a few large coral heads with shoals of small fish.
Good luck.
I agree that I like my SPS to have good PE, and I worry when they don't, but from what I have read, PE is not a known indicator of SPS health. I used to have a coral-nipping clown goby in my tank and daytime PE was non-existant. Since I removed the goby (several months ago) my SPS PE has been good. Except that I like the way the SPS looks with good PE, I really haven't noticed any sig change in coloration or growth.
I have never owned any of the fish you have in your tank, are any of them known to nip at coral polyps?
I don't know what to make of your lack of skimmate. I didn't bother to read the skimmer thread you refrenced. Did you try it in a buddy's sump to see if it pulled skimmate in their system (to make sure it is functioning correctly)?
I'll say it again, I think your SPS color looks good. I also like the overall plan for your tank...a few large coral heads with shoals of small fish.
Good luck.
dzhuo
Active member
Not that I am aware of. They are:
1. Pseudanthias bartlettorum (aka Bartlett's Anthias).
2. Chrysiptera parasema (aka Yellowtail Damselfish).
3. Valenciennea puellaris (aka Diamond Watchman Goby).
None of which is known to be coral nipper. The lack of polyp extension is also very apparent in lights out which is what concern me the most. I am really worry if they start to STN or I have no idea why they don't extend their polyp like they used to?
dzhuo
Active member
One last thing I want to mention before I forget.
Not every acro in my tank is showing signs of problems. Particularly, a few of my maricultures are doing much better and shows the polyp extensions like they would normally do. This particular milli and the green frag I have are the 2 that I am particular concern about. Both of which are aquacultured. For the lack of a better term, it seems to me the skeleton is growing faster than the skin. Does this make any sense? It just appears to me the skin is very thin (which is why I keep referring to whether it will STN) but maybe that is just because the lack of polyp extension?
Not every acro in my tank is showing signs of problems. Particularly, a few of my maricultures are doing much better and shows the polyp extensions like they would normally do. This particular milli and the green frag I have are the 2 that I am particular concern about. Both of which are aquacultured. For the lack of a better term, it seems to me the skeleton is growing faster than the skin. Does this make any sense? It just appears to me the skin is very thin (which is why I keep referring to whether it will STN) but maybe that is just because the lack of polyp extension?
Alex T.
Active member
What's your alkalinity?
Also, my milleporas always have polyp extension but only when I stir up the tank during maintenance do they show the hairy appearance. Some milles won't always have the hairy look to them. Flow also has a lot to do with it. I noticed you have everything fairly low in the tank. I assume you don't have a lot of flow at the sand bed or it would be blowing all around. You could try moving it higher to see if it will respond better.
Also, my milleporas always have polyp extension but only when I stir up the tank during maintenance do they show the hairy appearance. Some milles won't always have the hairy look to them. Flow also has a lot to do with it. I noticed you have everything fairly low in the tank. I assume you don't have a lot of flow at the sand bed or it would be blowing all around. You could try moving it higher to see if it will respond better.
dzhuo
Active member
I mentioned this multiple times in this thread.
Anyhow, it's roughly 7.4 and is controlled by my BRS doser. I will do another measurement tonight to confirm.This is definitely not an issue. I am fairly confidence that I have more than enough. At one point, I actually suspect I have too much flow which cause the acros to not show as much polyp extension.
It does blow all around even in the short side of the tank. This is an old picture and I outlined the area where sands are blowed around to reveal the tank bottom:
There are also areas in the back and the short end of the overflow that sands were blow around. The Tunze are powerful and since I have the wider face, the flow is similar to a Vortech. Combine with the return and the fact that my rock work does not block any of the flow, everything flow very nicely. Another good indication of flow is when you drop your food into the tank, how fast they were disperse through out the tank without settling.
I think my issue is too much light and not enough nutrient. But hopefully some of the more experienced SPS reefers can chime in.
dzhuo
Active member
So here is another comparison point. This is another blue milli I acquired last month or so. When I first get it. It looks like the following with good polyp extension. The overall apparent of the coral is brown with blue tip:
Old:
Now it looks like this (red circle):
I know it's a little hard to see but you can clearly see the intense blue facing the light. There is no more brown left. It also only show polyp extension in the shaded area.
I mentioned the color of my coraline algae to be blood red instead of the typical purple. I also notice they are predominately concentrated in the underside of the rocks. Here is a picture to illustrate this:
They are basically popping up more and more everyday but I don't know if the color is any indication of one way or another.
Old:
Now it looks like this (red circle):
I know it's a little hard to see but you can clearly see the intense blue facing the light. There is no more brown left. It also only show polyp extension in the shaded area.
I mentioned the color of my coraline algae to be blood red instead of the typical purple. I also notice they are predominately concentrated in the underside of the rocks. Here is a picture to illustrate this:
They are basically popping up more and more everyday but I don't know if the color is any indication of one way or another.
dzhuo
Active member
Little update. As suggested, I went out and bought 9 more fish (total is up to 17 fish now); all small chromis. I took a quick shot before lights out and you can see a few of them:
I also took another round of test:
alk: 7.8 (Salifer)
cal: 430 (Salifer)
phosphate: 0.00 (Hana Checker)
alk seems to be slowly raising so I adjusted the dosing pump a little bit.
I have continue to feed Roti-Feast on a nightly basis but I am only feeding roughly 1/5 of the recommended dosage. Update on the milli frag is that it's more or less the same; no PE; good color but skin looks dry up and can STN anytime.
I will continue to feed (now that I have more fish) and report back in a few weeks or if the milli frag dies.
I also took another round of test:
alk: 7.8 (Salifer)
cal: 430 (Salifer)
phosphate: 0.00 (Hana Checker)
alk seems to be slowly raising so I adjusted the dosing pump a little bit.
I have continue to feed Roti-Feast on a nightly basis but I am only feeding roughly 1/5 of the recommended dosage. Update on the milli frag is that it's more or less the same; no PE; good color but skin looks dry up and can STN anytime.
I will continue to feed (now that I have more fish) and report back in a few weeks or if the milli frag dies.
dzhuo
Active member
I have officially entered PANIC MODE. There is not much change as far as the milli goes; same as before and no polyp extension. I think I will lose the frag eventually. However, the green acro is pretty much on it's way out. I notice the tips of it is burning with what appear to be dino. I don't have a good enough camera to capture the detail but you can kind of imagine dino growing on the tips. What's worse is another frag appears to have the same problem and that frag isn't in a bad shape at all.
I am able to capture 2 pictures of what I believe to be dino and what's growing on the tips of these 2 frags.
On the Tunze:
On the return:
I also take another round of test:
1. Alk: 7.4 (Salifert)
2. Cal: 425 (Salifert)
3. Mag: 1350 (Salifert)
4. pH: 8.13 (RKL pH probe)
5. Temp: 80 (RKL Temp probe)
6. Phosphate: 0.00 (Hana Checker)
What do you guys think my problem is? Still too nutrient poor? Could this be caused by heavy metal? I notice a few screws from my LumenArc are rusting. Could the rust dropped into the tank causing this? I also notice one of my Tunze's impeller tip is rusting so I asked Roger about this but he assures me it won't cause any harm.
I really need help figure this out as I hate to see my acro slowly washing away one by one. It's like watching a slow dead to them.
I am able to capture 2 pictures of what I believe to be dino and what's growing on the tips of these 2 frags.
On the Tunze:
On the return:
I also take another round of test:
1. Alk: 7.4 (Salifert)
2. Cal: 425 (Salifert)
3. Mag: 1350 (Salifert)
4. pH: 8.13 (RKL pH probe)
5. Temp: 80 (RKL Temp probe)
6. Phosphate: 0.00 (Hana Checker)
What do you guys think my problem is? Still too nutrient poor? Could this be caused by heavy metal? I notice a few screws from my LumenArc are rusting. Could the rust dropped into the tank causing this? I also notice one of my Tunze's impeller tip is rusting so I asked Roger about this but he assures me it won't cause any harm.
I really need help figure this out as I hate to see my acro slowly washing away one by one. It's like watching a slow dead to them.
LifeAquatic
New member
..
..
No need to enter panic mode : ) You are seeing an algae bloom from a nutrient spike. The bio load from the new chromis is more then your bacteria can handle. Start cleaning that algae and keep up on your water changes. Your Biolad seemed pretty balanced before so don't go crazy with to many water changes or cutting back on fish feeding. I say balanced based on the apperance of your tank. Clean white sand present, no alage, decent coral color. You posted earlier that your blue mili went from brown to light blue after using rotifeast and you thought this was a bad thing. Usually brown corals showing new color is a good sign. The previous pics indicate your corals just needed a little food to color up. I think you were on the right track with feeding but might have went to aggesive to quickly. You can probably trim the Rotifest use down a bit. Always remember to make adjustments slowly in a reef aquarium. This applies to feeding, filtering, adding fish, etc.
..
No need to enter panic mode : ) You are seeing an algae bloom from a nutrient spike. The bio load from the new chromis is more then your bacteria can handle. Start cleaning that algae and keep up on your water changes. Your Biolad seemed pretty balanced before so don't go crazy with to many water changes or cutting back on fish feeding. I say balanced based on the apperance of your tank. Clean white sand present, no alage, decent coral color. You posted earlier that your blue mili went from brown to light blue after using rotifeast and you thought this was a bad thing. Usually brown corals showing new color is a good sign. The previous pics indicate your corals just needed a little food to color up. I think you were on the right track with feeding but might have went to aggesive to quickly. You can probably trim the Rotifest use down a bit. Always remember to make adjustments slowly in a reef aquarium. This applies to feeding, filtering, adding fish, etc.
dzhuo
Active member
Thx for the encouragement LifeAquatic.
I am really just confuse of whether my tank is too nutrient rich or poor. On one side, the ATB skimmer doesn't produce any skimmate, color is pale, and corals appear to be starving to dead over a few months period. They all come in looking healthy and slowing loose polyp extension and just go down hill. All seems like a classic example of nutrient poor. On another side, what appear to be dino is showing up and I was told bleaching color is a sign of dino. When you have dino growing, there is just no chance your tank is nutrient poor since dino only thrives in nutrient rich water.
My guess is eventually all of my SPS will bleach and die (it takes at least a few months) if I don't do something.
Here is another example. The corals appears to be growing a lot and coloring up nicely but overall apparence is no longer solid brown. It looks bleach to me:
2/15/2011:
3/5/2011:
What should I do next?
I am really just confuse of whether my tank is too nutrient rich or poor. On one side, the ATB skimmer doesn't produce any skimmate, color is pale, and corals appear to be starving to dead over a few months period. They all come in looking healthy and slowing loose polyp extension and just go down hill. All seems like a classic example of nutrient poor. On another side, what appear to be dino is showing up and I was told bleaching color is a sign of dino. When you have dino growing, there is just no chance your tank is nutrient poor since dino only thrives in nutrient rich water.
My guess is eventually all of my SPS will bleach and die (it takes at least a few months) if I don't do something.
Here is another example. The corals appears to be growing a lot and coloring up nicely but overall apparence is no longer solid brown. It looks bleach to me:
2/15/2011:
3/5/2011:
What should I do next?
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