Nutrient level in SPS tank

[dzhuo]

Thx for the encouragement LifeAquatic.

I am really just confuse of whether my tank is too nutrient rich or poor. On one side, the ATB skimmer doesn't produce any skimmate, color is pale, and corals appear to be starving to dead over a few months period. They all come in looking healthy and slowing loose polyp extension and just go down hill. All seems like a classic example of nutrient poor. On another side, what appear to be dino is showing up and I was told bleaching color is a sign of dino. When you have dino growing, there is just no chance your tank is nutrient poor since dino only thrives in nutrient rich water.

My guess is eventually all of my SPS will bleach and die (it takes at least a few months) if I don't do something.

Here is another example. The corals appears to be growing a lot and coloring up nicely but overall apparence is no longer solid brown. It looks bleach to me:

2/15/2011:

3/5/2011:

What should I do next?

 

[mike810]

Thx for the encouragement LifeAquatic.

I am really just confuse of whether my tank is too nutrient rich or poor. On one side, the ATB skimmer doesn't produce any skimmate, color is pale, and corals appear to be starving to dead over a few months period. They all come in looking healthy and slowing loose polyp extension and just go down hill. All seems like a classic example of nutrient poor. On another side, what appear to be dino is showing up and I was told bleaching color is a sign of dino. When you have dino growing, there is just no chance your tank is nutrient poor since dino only thrives in nutrient rich water.

My guess is eventually all of my SPS will bleach and die (it takes at least a few months) if I don't do something.

Here is another example. The corals appears to be growing a lot and coloring up nicely but overall apparence is no longer solid brown. It looks bleach to me:

2/15/2011:

3/5/2011:

What should I do next?

If you ask me, these two photos show the colors on the coral getting better. Notice in the first pic how light blue the tips of this sps are. Now in the second pic, the tips are a darker blue.

As for the algae growing on your tunze ph, It looks like regular old hair algae to me. Dino is stringy slimey algae that produces air bubbles as a tale tale sign.

I think you're on the right track, just take it slower. You added a ton of fish all at once and feeding your corals heavily. I had this very same problem when I was vodka dosing. I simply just fed my fish more and fed my corals maybe once a week.

Can you take a pic of your sump/skimmer, maybe this will help us with your skimmer not performing. Or do like someone suggested earlier, put your skimmer in a friends sump and see if it skims anything. GL

 

[Alex T.]

+1.

Corals look very good in fact. Keep the feeding where it is and let your biological filter catch up. You could just be leaching a little phosphate from your rocks, or even corals getting adjusted to flow patterns, lighting, position, etc. Your skimmer will let you know when you've "peaked". By no means should you be in panic mode. I think you're doing everything right. Tanks periodically will have some algae blooms. I periodically get some Dinos on the sand bed that just go away on their own and my tank is almost 3 years old. Nobody is stable all the time...even the clean and pristine Tank of The Month guys have problems...that's what separates them from us....they deal with problems slowly and methodically. Rush it and panic mode will surely be justified.

When I first started out I was always looking for the "perfect" spot for my SPS frags. The subsequent moving and photoperiod changes are so much worse than letting them be. I feel like they "reset" and start over every time they're moved. Some of these corals need a lot of time to show they're potential before they color up and start growing. Ride with it, change nothing, keep your hands out of the tank and pay attention to your skimmer. If you can try to feed until it skims well you'll find your tank's sweet spot.

Good luck

 

[dzhuo]

OK. That's somewhat comforting but I did lose one of the frag and another one (along with the blue milli) also seem to be slowly following path.

I will keep everything as is and slowly ramp up the feeding a little bit. I thought the grow and color of that particular acro is good but overall it looks a lot lighter which I assume it's bleaching.

Can you take a pic of your sump/skimmer, maybe this will help us with your skimmer not performing.

Unfortunately I don't have any recent photo but I have a lot on this thread and here is a few photos:

Most of the time the skimmer looks like this. No foam head:

And a video of what it looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad-urSy8WNo

 

[mike810]

Do you stick your hand in the tank a lot? This will kill the foam head.

What food do you feed your fish? Some foods will kill the foam head.

Silly question but I have to ask, did you remove the plastic film on top of your cup lid? Just like when you buy a new phone, it has that plastic wrap on the screen to keep it from getting scratched.

Did you open the air valve to the max? I think all skimmers should have this open 100%, doesn't make sense to restrict the air.

I find it very weird that your skimmer hasn't produced in months even though you have fish/coral + feed the tank. Even tanks with just sand and water will still skim something.

 

[Alex T.]

Mike, his tank is rated for more than double his system volume from what I remember.

 

[mike810]

you mean his skimmer is rated for double his system volume? If that's the case, maybe it's just too big for his tank?

Maybe you need more fish down the road lol. Since you got a school of chromis, I see a school of Bartlett Anthias in your near future =D

 

[dzhuo]

Do you stick your hand in the tank a lot? This will kill the foam head.

Rarely. I almost never put my hands in the tank. For example, my scrape took 10 minutes and haven't change it since. Other than gluing the frags, I don't put my hands in the tank at all.

What food do you feed your fish? Some foods will kill the foam head.

I fed a mix of foods including Forumla One, Rob's Food, PE Mysis, Cyclops, and Roti-Feast (recently). Nothing special; just the regular stuff. The skimmer does not form a foam head 90% of time so it's definitely not caused by food. On top of that, if anything in the water, the ROX .8 should have pull them out easily.

Silly question but I have to ask, did you remove the plastic film on top of your cup lid? Just like when you buy a new phone, it has that plastic wrap on the screen to keep it from getting scratched.

Not sure what you mean by this? There is a plastic film on the cup? Is it outside or on the inside? I never notice this but I don't remember seeing one. I will take a close look tonight. Would this be the cause of my skimmer not performing?

Did you open the air valve to the max? I think all skimmers should have this open 100%, doesn't make sense to restrict the air.

I don't have a air valve.

I find it very weird that your skimmer hasn't produced in months even though you have fish/coral + feed the tank. Even tanks with just sand and water will still skim something.

Me too but that's what Victor and everyone else told me that my tank is just too clean. I am just very frustrated and I have been patient enough the whole time. If I am not, I would have gone all over the Internet trashing ATB by now.

And a local reefer has been to my tank and saw the skimmer so I am not making this stuff up. He wouldn't figure out what the hell is going on with the skimmer either. Another ATB user PM me earlier and had similar problem with his ATB, he eventually gave up and switched to another brand and within 4 days, it's producing a lot more skimmate. I don't know when I am going to give up. I just hate spending so much money on a high end skimmer and feel defeated.

I have always use my skimmer as an indication of whether my tank is too clean, just right or dirty and now I am not sure.

 

[dzhuo]

Mike, his tank is rated for more than double his system volume from what I remember.

No it's not. It's definitely not rated over my system val. If anything, it's rated less. I talked to Jeremy before buying the skimmer and he assures me this is the right skimmer. Just perfect for a 150g (and I have 40g on top of that). Check out the ATB fan club and see how many are running in 90g with only LR and LS. Look at the skimmate pull out from those tanks and frag tanks that don't even have fish.

 

[mike810]

When I bought my skimmer, on top of the lid there was a plastic cover that I could pull off. Just like when you buy anything new, they have plastic on it to keep it from getting scratched. When you take it home you then pull off the plastic.

The reason I ask is because my brother bought a new skimmer that would not produce a foam head for a few weeks. I came over to take a look at his skimmer and noticed he left the plastic on top of his skimmer cup lid. It was blocking the air from escaping through the hole drilled on the cup lid. After that his skimmer was producing a foam head and skimmate like normal.

Not sure if it applies in your case but just thought I'd throw it out there incase it does.

 

[dzhuo]

Oh I see. Mine is definitely took off because in the beginning, my skimmer would overflow and the water would come out of the holes. Anyhow, I am going to take a close look tonight just to confirm but I have emptied the skimmer cup before and I don't remember seeing the plastic film.

Not sure if it applies in your case but just thought I'd throw it out there incase it does.

Thx. Every little thing help by elimination.

 

[LifeAquatic]

Skimmer

Skimmer

It looks like your skimmer is set to skim super dry. All of the gunk is collecting on the skimmer neck and not in the cup. Try raising the water level in your skimmer an inch or two and see if the gunk starts showing in the collection cup. A wet skim looks like tea. Dry skim looks like sludge. Super dry skim and the gunk only collects on the skimmer neck and never makes it to the cup.

 

[dzhuo]

I have raised the water level inside the skimmer considerably. Right now, I am already at a point where the water line is only about 1" below the cup. Anything higher would likely overflow. I will take another photo tonight for everyone to see.

Btw, does opening and closing the pipe affect air pull? I was concern the more I close the pipe, the less air it would drew because the back pressure to the pump.

 

[mike810]

how many inches of water is your skimmer sitting in? I think most skimmers do well in 7-10 inches of water. I don't know what is your skimmer's optimal operating depth but I would look into that also.

 

[dzhuo]

6.5" to 7". I couldn't measure it perfectly but it's within that range. I have seen people running ATB 840 in 6", 6.5", 7", 7.5" and even 8" without problem. Water depth is to fine tune skimmer production, mine isn't even working (at least according to me). The skimmer also sits in a sump chamber where there is no ups and down in water height. The ATO is at the lowest level and keeps water height constant pretty much all the time.

I have always hoped that my tank is just too clean but now with what appear to be dino showing up, I am losing confidence.

 

[Jonathan76]

+1.

Corals look very good in fact. Keep the feeding where it is and let your biological filter catch up. You could just be leaching a little phosphate from your rocks, or even corals getting adjusted to flow patterns, lighting, position, etc. Your skimmer will let you know when you've "peaked". By no means should you be in panic mode. I think you're doing everything right. Tanks periodically will have some algae blooms. I periodically get some Dinos on the sand bed that just go away on their own and my tank is almost 3 years old. Nobody is stable all the time...even the clean and pristine Tank of The Month guys have problems...that's what separates them from us....they deal with problems slowly and methodically. Rush it and panic mode will surely be justified.

When I first started out I was always looking for the "perfect" spot for my SPS frags. The subsequent moving and photoperiod changes are so much worse than letting them be. I feel like they "reset" and start over every time they're moved. Some of these corals need a lot of time to show they're potential before they color up and start growing. Ride with it, change nothing, keep your hands out of the tank and pay attention to your skimmer. If you can try to feed until it skims well you'll find your tank's sweet spot.

Good luck

“[corals] . . . “reset” and start over every time they’re moved.”
I feel the same way.

About the skimmer: It’s like that all the time? Surface tension issue? Do you use hand moisturizer and put your hand in the tank - or have something oily on you hands when coming in contact with the tank water, possibly?

 

[BuckeyeTodd]

I have followed this skimmer situation for two or three months now. There is either a simple solution, or there is something wrong with this skimmer. I'm going from memory, but I think you run the large PPW. That means it should run in six inches to keep the water level from being too high. Try running it at six inches, and adjusting the water level with the wedge pipe. If this doesn't work, try lending it to a local reefer and see if it works on another tank(tell them six inch sump level). If the skimmer doesn't work on two different tanks, call Victor and/or Jeremy and raise heck. You've struggled more with this skimmer than I can even imagine, and you bought a top of the line skimmer-this would be when they should step up and give you the support they are known for. I thought for sure it was the nutrient level, but if you are feeding multiple times a day now-thats not it(though you do still have a low nutrient level in your tank, but it should skim something)

Good luck man

 

[dzhuo]

About the skimmer: It's like that all the time? Surface tension issue? Do you use hand moisturizer and put your hand in the tank - or have something oily on you hands when coming in contact with the tank water, possibly?

Pretty much all the time. I would say anywhere from 80% to 90% of the time, it's like that. I don't put my hand in the water at all. And even if I did, this is not a few days or few weeks problem, we are talking about +5 months. I can't possibly put my hand in the tank that often to cause this long of struggle. Besides, the ROX .8 carbon would have definitely helped.

As promised, here is the most recent picture I took tonight. Look at the water line inside the skimmer, I am running as wet as you can ever be. And look at the skimmate production in 2 days. You see anything? To be honest, there is a tiny little bit of coffee color skimmate. I will actually be very happy if this skimmer can produce this much skimmate consistently every 2 days. I am not kidding, that's how bad it has been. There are a gunk in the skimmer neck but it almost never forms a foam head and produce any decent skimmate:

And to prove what I believe to be organic matter in the tank. Check out the green bio-film on the front class. This forms every 2 days so how can my tank be too clean?

 

[dzhuo]

Thx Todd! I know you have been following my thread and trying to help but I am super frustrated right now (and I believe I have reason to). I did talk to Victor multiple times and he did sent out a new motor which I replaced. The skimmer didn't perform any differently. The funny thing is you mention 6" because Victor said no. He said my 6.5" to 7" is optimal for large PPW. I asked Victor to send me a known working skimmer but he said he doesn't have one. I told him I can ship my skimmer to him for inspection but I want a replacement before I ship mine out. I guess he's not comfortable. I don't know.

As for Jeremy, do you think I should talk to him? I don't know what he can do tho? Because I bought my skimmer 1.5 years ago if I remember correctly. My plan was to set up the tank 1 year ago but a baby delayed everything until ~6 months go. Do you think Jeremy would still honor the purchase and support it?

Btw, I am fairly happy with Victor's support so far but I am running out of time and patient.

 

[BuckeyeTodd]

I never ran the Lg PPW, I was planning on buying the 840 but it was out of stock so I got the elegance. I remember being told that 6 was correct. If you are running the wedge pipe wide open and the water level is at that point, thats probably the/one of the problems. Double check me on the six inches, but if thats right try running it the "correct way" and see what your results are. If thats not it, then loan it to someone local or your LFS and let them try it.

If it doesn't work at 6", and doesn't work on multiple peoples tanks, then the skimmer doesn't work. Explain this to Victor, he should make it right. IF he doesn't then I'd talk to Jeremy(I don't know Jeremy, I worked with Mike for my last two skimmer purchases-but I think if there were no other options Mike would work with me on a way out of the situation). Is it their responsibility, no. Will they be willing to take a hit to try and help a customer who has no other options, I'd ask if I had exhausted the other option. IMO if the skimmer doesn't work and hasn't in six months Victor should help you. If he's unwilling, I'd ask Jeremy.

Worst case scenario and neither want to help you, buy the new mini airstar they are putting on the 2.0 version or sell it and let someone else try. We had a guy in my local reef club with a very similar situation(same kind of probs, different skimmer). He finally sold the skimmer within the club being straight up with the problems. The other guy bought a different kind of pump for it and finally got it to work. So one guy got a deal on a skimmer, and the other guy recouped some of his losses. win/win

Best of luck, you have been more patient with the situation then I ever could have