Nutrient level in SPS tank
- Thread starter dzhuo
- Start date
Alex T.
Active member
Well, my skimmer is online as of 5:30 and still not forming a foam head after my test. I stuck my hand into the downdraft black box and wiped it clean with paper towels. It was almost completely reddish brown and not organic matter. You haver to wipe a surface to see if you can detect any. Looking with just your eyes won't really help. It had almost a rough texture to it. I suspect some of it is in my external skimmer pump as well but it may just work its' way through on a pump as powerful as an Iwaki 55. I don't normally use filter socks either so I put some on this morning when I broke down the skimmer for a rinse and when I came home from work they were noticeable black in some spots and red in others....a combination of the lignite carbon and gfo residue in the tank.
As for the GFO questions, it can definitely stop skimmer production. Randy actually addressed it in the Chemistry forum a while back when I was getting skimmer issues with no foam production. It doesn't take much at all in a downdraft skimmer because the bioball tower is loaded with all sorts of surfaces that can grab it. This is why I don't use it anymore (other than this recent test) and opt for carbon and MB7 dosing.
The best way I've found to rinse GFO is to place it in a plastic tupperware container with RO water and let it sit for 10 minutes. Rinse, empty and repeat. It took upwards of 6 times before I no longer saw the residue. Running 10 gallons through the reactor I found to be counterproductive. The sponges will hold alot of residue on them and then slowly leech into the system. We're talkiing about particles so small that you'd never notice a slow leeching because it would take a lot of them together to see a difference.
As for the GFO questions, it can definitely stop skimmer production. Randy actually addressed it in the Chemistry forum a while back when I was getting skimmer issues with no foam production. It doesn't take much at all in a downdraft skimmer because the bioball tower is loaded with all sorts of surfaces that can grab it. This is why I don't use it anymore (other than this recent test) and opt for carbon and MB7 dosing.
The best way I've found to rinse GFO is to place it in a plastic tupperware container with RO water and let it sit for 10 minutes. Rinse, empty and repeat. It took upwards of 6 times before I no longer saw the residue. Running 10 gallons through the reactor I found to be counterproductive. The sponges will hold alot of residue on them and then slowly leech into the system. We're talkiing about particles so small that you'd never notice a slow leeching because it would take a lot of them together to see a difference.
dzhuo
Active member
It has been online for roughly 24 hours now but it has not produce any skimmate yet. However, I do notice the foam head seems to be thicker. It used to be just 1.5" of watery bubbles but now it's easily 3" of dry foam. It's just not big enough to produce any skimmate. It seems to be improving but too early to tell. I will try to take a photo tonight.
As for the corals, no change yet. The green film algae on the glass still grows every 2 days. The green acro frag is 50% dead but the cyano seems to be disappear from its tips.
I will provide another update next Monday and test all parameters.
Oh, my bartlett's anthias is all but gone.
It has been slowly eating less and less over the last 2 months. My best guess is either I don't feed him enough (less likely because he doesn't show interest in the food) or the GFO residue eventually clog his lung or gill or something. All other fish shows no sign of stress.
As for the corals, no change yet. The green film algae on the glass still grows every 2 days. The green acro frag is 50% dead but the cyano seems to be disappear from its tips.
I will provide another update next Monday and test all parameters.
Oh, my bartlett's anthias is all but gone.
It has been slowly eating less and less over the last 2 months. My best guess is either I don't feed him enough (less likely because he doesn't show interest in the food) or the GFO residue eventually clog his lung or gill or something. All other fish shows no sign of stress.
Alex T.
Active member
dzhuo, if there's no change within the next 24 hours I would consider investing in an airflow meter. This could tell you if the skimmer pump is truly sucking in enough air. It's very easy to do for your type of skimmer. If it's not sucking in enough air for the skimmer it will never form a steady head of foam. You can't see this simply by looking at the parts. Some skimmer pumps are just faulty.
Here's one I found that is very easy to understand and use.
http://www.reefdynamics.com/category-s/163.htm
Here's one I found that is very easy to understand and use.
http://www.reefdynamics.com/category-s/163.htm
dzhuo
Active member
As promised, I took a couple of pictures tonight. The bad news is still no skimmate yet. The good news is the skimmer is definitely improving. I don't know if this is the result of taking GFO offline or the vinegar cleaning (or both). My guess is the vinegar bath properly has more to do with it. Here are 2 pictures:
Notice the foam head is thick compare to the watery thin foam head before:
Here is cup:
Alex,
The pump's motor had been replaced by Victor. It's highly unlikely I got 2 bad motors in a row.
Notice the foam head is thick compare to the watery thin foam head before:
Here is cup:
Alex,
The pump's motor had been replaced by Victor. It's highly unlikely I got 2 bad motors in a row.
dzhuo
Active member
I will wait for a few more days to see how things goes. After all, I have waited for 6 months now. 
Btw, I forget to mention that there are skimmate this morning; about 1/10" and seems to be fairly dark as well.
On a dark note: Another one of my frag (not the blue milli) is also dieing. It follows the same dieing pattern as the green frag. What appear to be cyano / dino is growing on its tip. This particular frag is actually healthier than the blue milli so it's surprise to me it's going down like that. As I mention earlier, whatever it's, I am afraid it's slowly affecting the rest of my acros.
Btw, I forget to mention that there are skimmate this morning; about 1/10" and seems to be fairly dark as well.On a dark note: Another one of my frag (not the blue milli) is also dieing. It follows the same dieing pattern as the green frag. What appear to be cyano / dino is growing on its tip. This particular frag is actually healthier than the blue milli so it's surprise to me it's going down like that. As I mention earlier, whatever it's, I am afraid it's slowly affecting the rest of my acros.
dzhuo
Active member
Yup. I used to run my ATB at this level. Basically just at the bottom of the neck. However, running this low will almost guarantee that I will not produce any skimmate forever which is why I slowly raise it up to skim a little on the wet side. I will risk overflow a little but it hasn't. At least by raising the level up, I will get a little bit of skimmate which is better than nothing at all.
Since I vinegar bath the skimmer, I have actually lower the level a little bit and it's still producing skimmate (checked this morning). This tells me the skimmer is improving so I am willing to give it a week or 2 to see how it goes. If the skimmate is too wet, I will slowly open the pipe and lower it. But I want to do this slowly. I have talked to Victor many times and as far as the pump goes, the only moving part is the motor. The rest is just plastic block (and venturi). Since Victor replaced the motor once, it's highly unlikely it's a pump issue.
How is the new skimmer doing JG?
Since I vinegar bath the skimmer, I have actually lower the level a little bit and it's still producing skimmate (checked this morning). This tells me the skimmer is improving so I am willing to give it a week or 2 to see how it goes. If the skimmate is too wet, I will slowly open the pipe and lower it. But I want to do this slowly. I have talked to Victor many times and as far as the pump goes, the only moving part is the motor. The rest is just plastic block (and venturi). Since Victor replaced the motor once, it's highly unlikely it's a pump issue.
How is the new skimmer doing JG?
JG1
New member
Skimmer is doing awesome. The IN-100 is a skimming machine lol. I love it.
Besides it being more consistent them my ATB, it's not as sensitive to things in the water. For example, I used epoxy for a few frags a couple weeks ago. Not kidding when I say the ATB overflowed for 72 hours straight. I had to just open the wedge pipe all the way open and open the valve on the bottom of the skimmer cup and let it overflow into the sump. Meanwhile my filter suck was turning black from all the crap in the water.
I used epoxy a couple days ago with the IN-100, the skimmer didn't act crazy and just kept skimming like normal.
Besides it being more consistent them my ATB, it's not as sensitive to things in the water. For example, I used epoxy for a few frags a couple weeks ago. Not kidding when I say the ATB overflowed for 72 hours straight. I had to just open the wedge pipe all the way open and open the valve on the bottom of the skimmer cup and let it overflow into the sump. Meanwhile my filter suck was turning black from all the crap in the water.
I used epoxy a couple days ago with the IN-100, the skimmer didn't act crazy and just kept skimming like normal.
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dzhuo
Active member
You are making me want to throw out my ATB right now. Seriously, I will wait a little longer to see if it will keep improving. As I mention earlier, I still believe my tank is somewhat nutrient poor so there is a possibility there isn't anything to skim. We will see but if I keep loosing frags, I will look elsewhere.
It's not my intention to turn this into a skimmer problem thread but I guess the skimmer play a role. I have already lost one frag and another one is following so I am kind of running out of time. If anyone have any insight, let me know ASAP!
Seriously, I will wait a little longer to see if it will keep improving. As I mention earlier, I still believe my tank is somewhat nutrient poor so there is a possibility there isn't anything to skim. We will see but if I keep loosing frags, I will look elsewhere.It's not my intention to turn this into a skimmer problem thread but I guess the skimmer play a role. I have already lost one frag and another one is following so I am kind of running out of time. If anyone have any insight, let me know ASAP!
Well here's my "insight" (or two pennies worth).
First the thread is messed up concptually.
The main theme is/was my nutrients are so low,low,low that my skimmer won't work. That could be true. But the fact is corals are dying, and that is/ has not been shwon to be related to either of those other two facts (the skimmer not working, or too low nutrients.) The relationship is pure conjecture.
So, taking it one at a time.
First the skimmer is not working. Except for the one photo after the vinegar bath, the skimmer was either 1) not draining or 2) was experieicng bubble collapse, you can see it in the photos and in the lack of foam. Both of these are explained in Randy's article on skimming and can be investigated and eliminated in a systematic fashion. But messing with GFO and carbon does not fix an inoperative skimmer. Things like, methodically raising the skimmer in the sump and/or throttling the air would determine if it is a draining issue (by helping the skimmer neck water between the bubbles drain). If that was done and the bubble collapsing/large wet bubbles remained, then its probably a system-specifc or tank water problem, such as oil or surfactants in the tank water, or an oil slick forming on the tank surface leading to bubble collapse because of poor surface flow or weak overflows or too little return pump. Also skimmer placment in the sump, and relationship to other things influent to the sump need to be sorted out.
On the second problem, very little info on tank chemistry and husbandry paremeters have been provided, so its very difficult to say what may be happening to the frags. But I think it is safe to say, if in fact is PO4 is close to ND and Nitrate is also, then these thnigs are good (not lethal to corals) and somehting else is affecting the frags, and its not the skimmer or those two parameters that is killing them. It could be pests; or poor acclimation, gluing, or placement technique; or old or poor lighting; or poor flow; or one of several other things.
Sorry if this is a rant. I did not intnend to be mean. It just came out like that when I tried to sort it out in black and white.
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Ok low nutrient tanks result in pale color not because of food source but because Iron, potassium, vitamins , Trace element are being striped from the water . Low nutrients is really not good for tank becuase it stipes all bad and good elements need in the water. I would start dosing potassium and trace elements first and see if your colors recover if not then check for AEFW (Acro eatting flat worms) that will also cause fading of color and death of coral . to check this see if theres white spots on your acro if so that the coral out and rub somthing on the coral and see if you see flat worms moving around the blind with the colors thats why you have to rubb somthing on it .
And one more thing if your skimming wet stop skimm dry but check for pet first like i stated and what your light setup
And one more thing if your skimming wet stop skimm dry but check for pet first like i stated and what your light setup
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dzhuo
Active member
Appreciate the help but did you at least read the whole thread? I have provided a full profile of my tank as well as lots of photos through out the thread as well as links to skimmer problem with lots of videos. To cap:
dzhuo said:
dzhuo said:
dzhuo said:
Fish population (plus 9 chromis added recently):
dzhuo said:
Let me know if anything is missing. The one thing I don't have is N level.
dzhuo
Active member
Again, I am not really sure if you guys actually at least attempt to go through the thread but in case this is lost:
dzhuo said:
I will look into the various chemicals you mentioned. Do you have link to how these affects corals?
Yes here you go http://blog.fragd.it/2009/11/13/stn-and-the-real-issues-part-3/ . sroll down and read the ultra low nutrient systems .
And your bulbs need to be changed Radium are always overdriven unless your not overdriving them
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dzhuo
Active member
Thx for the link. I will check it out. I don't want to run a ULNS system so if my tank is in fact ULNS, I will feed more.
Not sure what you mean by this? But if you mean whether my ballast can properly run a Radium or not then the answer is yes. Bluewave will run the Radium to spec. 5 to 6 months aren't that bad as far as PAR lose or color shift but I will probably change them soon anyway.
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