Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread
- Thread starter tkeracer619
- Start date
Company that sells the unit says a better regulator is not needed, shocking. A needle valve has absolutely nothing to do with an end of tank dump. End of tank dump happens when the co2 tank pressure drops to a certain point that the regulator can no longer control it so the remaining co2 in the tank is released by the regulator. A dual stage regulator does not allow this to happen.
My co2 background comes from the planted tank world and you will have a really hard time finding someone in the planted tank world with the aquarium plants regulator. Considerably better units are available for cheaper if you look through ebay. I have 3 regulators. A victor vts-253b on my reef tank, an airgas y12d on a planted tank and a matheson 3102C as a backup. I paid less than $50 each for the airgas and matheson.
StevieK
New member
Bingo !!!!!!!!
... in case you guys are interested in a real Regulator check out the deal Co2 Dual Stage Regulator - Concoa SS up in the sales section !!
tkeracer619
New member
Yes, it works great! Makes tuning this setup ridiculously easy.
Krazie4Acans
New member
Aren't most of you running some kind of aquarium controller with your setups? I don't run the PA carbondoser regulator or a fancy double stage reg. The reason is that my apex monitors the CA reactor pH and turns off the solenoid if the pH drops too low. Now during normal operation my bubble count and size are tuned so that the solenoid rarely closes. However at the end of a tank when the "dump" occurs my apex intervenes and prevents the "dump" from even being noticed by the system at all.
Krazie4Acans
New member
Not if your bubble size and rate is already set by the needle valve. It may speed up some with the possible increase of pressure but I've never had mine dump so quickly that there was a large drop in pH at the end of a tank. In fact the only way I know my tank is empty is the slow gradual increase of pH once it's out of gas (and yes it always happens when it's a few hours before I can get there to swap it out lol)
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At 1bps it's not a big dump. When you have the needle valve set to 5+bps that tiny blip becomes huge.
Krazie4Acans
New member
Are you talking about a blip in my attached picture? I've never seen a setup at 1bps but I still don't see how it would matter if the needle valve is restricting the bubble count already. When the pressure increases due to the lack of regulation the bubble size would get larger and maybe slightly faster but it's still restricted by the needle valve.
Are you saying that at 5+bps your needle valve is all the way open and so you just get a big burp into your reactor? I'm just asking because I don't see this problem and I think there is more to it than just a single stage regulator.
Are you saying that at 5+bps your needle valve is all the way open and so you just get a big burp into your reactor? I'm just asking because I don't see this problem and I think there is more to it than just a single stage regulator.
Regulators have 2 pressures they monitor/regulate. Co2 tank pressure and working pressure which gets passed on to the needle valve. Standard co2 tank operates at ~800psi. That incoming pressure then gets regulated to a much lower pressure of between 1-100psi for most units. A needle valve controls the outgoing co2 by taking into account the working pressure. This is why when you have the same exact needle valve the setting on it will be different when you output 10 psi to vs 25 psi for the same bubble rate.
This means that bubble rate will be different at 10 psi vs 25 psi when the needle is on the same exact spot. So what happens during an eotd? That incoming pressure from the co2 tank can no longer be regulated to 1-100psi so working pressure goes up as tank pressure goes down. That means that the bubble rate goes way up even though you didn't touch the needle valve. This happens quickly and a ph probe cannot detect in time.
Think of a dual stage regulator as basically two regulators in one unit, a high pressure and a low pressure. The first stage and second stage keeps the pressure at equilibrium before it goes out as working pressure. So as tank pressure goes down working pressure stays the same.
This is why running low working pressure is actually more dangerous. When you run 5 psi working pressure the needle valve will actually be more open than when you run it at 25psi when you want it to output say 1 bubble per second. That means that during an eotd the co2 will dump out much quicker at the 5psi working pressure.
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Krazie4Acans
New member
And I agree with much of what you said. However, referring back to my graph that I posted. Even if the probe couldn't detect the eotd fast enough to react as you state, it would still pickup the pH drop in the reactor after that and before the rise in pH occurs. That however is not what I see so what makes my Milwaukee single stage not show this behavior?
An eotd is not guaranteed to happen every time the tank gets low. I ran a single stage regulator for a year on a planted tank without an eotd. All it took was one time to gas and wipe out all my fish. Never gain after that. If someone runs their pH at 6.6 a single eotd is enough to make the pH go so low that is turns the stuff to mush and one dumps super sky high alk in the tank.
Krazie4Acans
New member
I've heard the stories and seen the pictures people posted. However if my CA reactor drops .5 below my low set point then the Masterflex gets turned off to prevent dumping sky high alk into my tank.
So even if I can't prevent the eotd from happening, or even detect it quick enough to shut off the solenoid to prevent the reactor pH from dropping too far, I can turn off the the effluent going into my tank and save the entire system.
So even if I can't prevent the eotd from happening, or even detect it quick enough to shut off the solenoid to prevent the reactor pH from dropping too far, I can turn off the the effluent going into my tank and save the entire system.
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soulpatch
New member
Though now instead of one piece of equipment working to account for an instance you are reling on your probe to work, the controller to pick that up and properly hit the electrical, the solenoid to not jam, and the masterflex to kill power.
You have it covered in case it happens sure but you have added a ton of moving pieces to ensure no disaster whereas a dual stage would handle that by itself.
Krazie4Acans
New member
Single point of failure is never an option with my tank. That includes relying on a dual stage regulator to never fail.
Don't get me wrong because I can see every ones point on the dual stage regulator and it's benefit. Even if I was running one I would still have all of the other backup measures on my tank regardless.
Yes I'm relying on the probe to work. I also replace it every year to help insure that it does just that. Yes the controlled outlet for the masterflex could not shut off and still put sky high alk into the system. I regularly test them to make sure they cycle as it should. I also have additional measures in place should all of that fail. These aren't things I added to my system just because I use a single stage regulator. They are things that would be on my system even if I wasn't running a CA Reactor. I have just incorporated them into helping to protect my investment in my tank. Could I still add the Dual stage regulator? Absolutely but I don't think it's required and I would still run all of the other safeguards even if I did.
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