Officially throwing in the towel

I have had the same issue as you in the past. Markalot makes a lot of good suggestions. The biggest take I would reiterate from what he has said is...
"Stop all media and all other forms of export other than a skimmer"
and I would also try letting your alk drop on it's own to about 7.5 -8.0 and see how it goes.

My tank is notoriously always low in Phosphate and Nitrate (low nutrient) and every time my alk got above 8.5 or so I would start to get STN. Once I let my alk drop, the changes have been like night and day. I also do not use carbon or GFO anymore. I know every tank is different, but for me this worked out great. I wouldn't give up quite yet. Good luck
 
My money is on good carbon. Run good carbon in a "reactor" on full blast. replace it often. You may have chemical warfare going on or possibly used "bad" silicone (mildewcide) in your sump?
 
The sump is acrylic. So anyways. I just went to my Lfs to have him check my water and apparently my refractometer is way off. He checked my salinity and it's at 1.028. I borrowed his par meter and I'm going to go grab my refractometer to have him calibrate it.
 
Are you measuring and/or dosing magnesium? Could be part of the issue, especially if you're not growing coraline.
 
The Kessils can work just fine, just turn them down. Read some other similar builds and emulate what they are doing exactly. I would start out with 4X the blue to white spectrum for starters and adjust as you go. Maybe start at 40% and then slowly ramp them up. Very few are running the LED's wide open with success. They are stronger than they appear to your eye. I have a 4 month old tank with acro's doing well so I don't buy that " it's too new" crap, the acro's just need to have they're needs met and they will do well. The algae phase will take a while to settle down no matter what you do, maybe a full year until it's totally controlled 100%. Add more clean up crew if it really becomes a problem, you can always take some out later. Just keep it simple, Big skimmer, well managed params, 10% weekly water changes and feed the fish well. It really can be a pain, I lost a tank full of coral about 7 mos. ago to a bacterial infection so I feel your pain. Dip all new additions and quarantine if possible. Stay with it, good luck. The led's don't measure PAR the same as other light sources so don't expect the same numbers, read other's experiences.
 
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So my refractometer was off by .003 and I checked my par. At 50% it was about 110 just under the surface going down to 60 at the sand bed. At 100% they are 210 at the surface and 130 at the sand bed. I have been running them at 50% which by the par reading is too low. From what I have read they need 150-500 to thrive
 
+1 on what markalot said. Started a 40 gal and everything was going perfect for about 4 months loaded with sps. started to grow lots of algae and had to clean the film off my glass daily so i added gfo and chemipure, etc to get all my levels very low.

Over the last 2 months, all my sps have started to loose color and becoming very pale.
Been pulling stuff offline and the corals are starting to look a lot better.

Perfect waters is not always perfect!
 
WaReefer458 said:
So my refractometer was off by .003 and I checked my par. At 50% it was about 110 just under the surface going down to 60 at the sand bed. At 100% they are 210 at the surface and 130 at the sand bed. I have been running them at 50% which by the par reading is too low. From what I have read they need 150-500 to thrive
Click to expand...

Are these the older Kessils? Bump the reading up by 20%, then go mostly blue and aim for 100 on the sandbed. This is a rough guess but at that level SPS won't die. Step one is to solve the pealing skin (tissue necrosis, either rapid or slow = RTN/STN) issues. This was my big first step, stop killing corals. :)
 
Were the rocks started as live, if so how long? If not, then I would bet that your tank has not matured enough yet. There is a balance that sps typically do well in, usually 1st evident by coraline algae(not present in your tank). Feather dusters, worms, pods, sponges, and other micro inhabitants usually are also signs of a tank, or rock, that is well matured. Now in these type of tanks, due to the diversity of life, sps will typically settle well, and nutrient control becomes important. The biggest problem "new tanks" have, is that the owners try and run them like mature tanks, running low nutrients, essentially starving out the corals as the life in the tank tries to mature and grow, those nutrients are needed for all life, the rock, the corals, the coraline algae, the dusters, you get the point. For this reason, your tank appears to have what is referred to as "New Tank Syndrome". I believe this to be the main reason why Zeovit prefers that you setup with "Fresh" live rock and dead sand. I could go on for hours, merely speculating... So to me you either start a tank with dead rock, and over a long period of time allow it and the tank to mature, then add sps, evident by coraline algae growth(1 year minimum, IMO) or, you start your tank off with well seeded live rock, example (Tampa Bay Live Rock), or live rock you cooked yourself. At this point you will need a couple of months, IMO max. Find out the source of where the rock comes from, that would be 1st first guess. And like the others have said, during times of uncertainty, KISS is usually the best approach. Skim, stable big 3, s.g. are a great starting point, and lessen the light like Mark mentioned too. Best of luck!
 
Have you used a Par meter to adjust your lighting from the looks of your SPS your lights are turned up to high secret to LED's they have a more power than t5's and so you need to use a Par meter to adjust your lights. The way you describe how the SPS frags die is the tip off to the problem I have used MH and T5's for years. But wanted to learn about how to use LED's I was having the same issues you where having till I started using a Par meter to adjust my Radion G3Pro. I found that my corals where under to intense lighting causing loss after a couple of weeks. Once I turn the lights down I was able to stabilize the corals.
 
This thread sounds so familiar to me when i went sps.
Your going to get a lot of opinions and answers here but you need to do what works for your tank. My first mistake was my radion Leds when i started with sps. There are too many factors with leds when you are new to sps to get it right. Ill tell you what you need first to know its not your lighting. change over to T5's or MH's so you know you cant screw up with that and know its not the lighting. Leds have too much adjustments when your new at sps to get it right and even now when im running MH its a task to know where placement of sps should be and acclimating them slowly to the intense light but at least i know these lights work, grow and color up sps so its not my lights if something is wrong. Before i had no idea what was screwing up my sps.
If you look at the majority of the best sps tanks out there they run T5 or MH. Next would be pick a good salt, something stable with normal parameters so when you do a change of water it isnt shocking the corals with its swing especially ALK. I personally like ESV. Then keep your parameters stable as much as possible. Youll get lots of people posting their parameters but your tank is unique and only your corals will tell you what they like. Plus PO4 should not be at 0.0, corals need PO4 for color or they will fade and starve. yes some people run ultra low nutrient systems but i dont believe that is the norm for all of us. Ill give you my parameters but this does not mean it will work for your tank. you need to see for yourself what your tank needs but first change those lights. you and I spent more money on dead corals because of our leds than we would have if we spent it on bulbs and electricity or dealing with a little more heat than we would like in our rooms.
SAL 1.026
ALK 8.3
CAL 480
MAG 1540
PO4 .04-.14 (I run BP's so this could be a factor why i need PO4 in my system)
Temp 75-79
i dont run carbon unless i feel there is an issue

Once you switch your lights youll have an easier time figuring out whats wrong at least you know its not your lights.
too white, too blue, take off reds and greens, lower the blue, raise the whites. its never ending and in the end our wallets and corals suffer.
Enjoy and good luck.
 
My tank is one year old. I'm $12k deep.......easy. Nycreef pretty much nailed my experience when I started going acro crazy. I will give you my thoughts based on my rookie year experience because someone here helped me.

My rocks turned green like that when the tank was still pretty young. Could not grow acros with maxspect razors. Then 3 kessils 360we over a 4' long by 18" wide by 24" deep tank. Still poor results but better results than before. Added 8 bulb ATI and the 55 acros I collected took off. All are still quite small but the difference is night and day.

I could NOT keep an acro in my tank for the first 6 months. Light, flow, bioload, dosing, etc, were all in play. Just happened to be when I switched to T5 that I figured out the rest of the puzzle. Seemingly all around the 8 month mark.

Turned off GFO, if it creeps too much I just run a very small amount at a very slow gph rate. I turned off the GAC. I only run it one a month for 2 days, 1/3 of the recommended rate.

I test Kh daily and make small adjustments to my DOS. Automation via Neptune Apex is very helpful to me.

I feed a cube a night and nori every few days. Dose aminos and/or oyster feast occasionally.

Empty skimmer cup about every week. Water change 20% every other week. Matching new water the tank parameters.

N03- 5
P04- barely detectable
Kh- 8.2



Don't give up. Like I said, when my rocks looked like yours do right now, acros were not happy. You have what you need just need to find your tanks happy place.




nycreef said:
This thread sounds so familiar to me when i went sps.
Your going to get a lot of opinions and answers here but you need to do what works for your tank. My first mistake was my radion Leds when i started with sps. There are too many factors with leds when you are new to sps to get it right. Ill tell you what you need first to know its not your lighting. change over to T5's or MH's so you know you cant screw up with that and know its not the lighting. Leds have too much adjustments when your new at sps to get it right and even now when im running MH its a task to know where placement of sps should be and acclimating them slowly to the intense light but at least i know these lights work, grow and color up sps so its not my lights if something is wrong. Before i had no idea what was screwing up my sps.
If you look at the majority of the best sps tanks out there they run T5 or MH. Next would be pick a good salt, something stable with normal parameters so when you do a change of water it isnt shocking the corals with its swing especially ALK. I personally like ESV. Then keep your parameters stable as much as possible. Youll get lots of people posting their parameters but your tank is unique and only your corals will tell you what they like. Plus PO4 should not be at 0.0, corals need PO4 for color or they will fade and starve. yes some people run ultra low nutrient systems but i dont believe that is the norm for all of us. Ill give you my parameters but this does not mean it will work for your tank. you need to see for yourself what your tank needs but first change those lights. you and I spent more money on dead corals because of our leds than we would have if we spent it on bulbs and electricity or dealing with a little more heat than we would like in our rooms.
SAL 1.026
ALK 8.3
CAL 480
MAG 1540
PO4 .04-.14 (I run BP's so this could be a factor why i need PO4 in my system)
Temp 75-79
i dont run carbon unless i feel there is an issue

Once you switch your lights youll have an easier time figuring out whats wrong at least you know its not your lights.
too white, too blue, take off reds and greens, lower the blue, raise the whites. its never ending and in the end our wallets and corals suffer.
Enjoy and good luck.
Click to expand...
 
How do you mesure NO3/PO4?
I would get another reading.. from reputable test kit.

How stable is the ALk/salinity/temp? SPS need light, quite good water and stability.

Those suggesting more fish, more food, etc are missing the issue, it's not about color, it's about getting them to live for 1 month+

Go slow, match salinity/alk when doing small water change
Get an Hanna Phosphate checker and Red Sea Pro Alk, Ca and NO3 and shoot for a less than 0.5 change in alk/day (8dkh prefered), 450 Ca, 0-5 NO3, 0-0.04 PO4.
 
Wa,

I feel your pain and frustration. I have lost lots of coral over the years and my 20 gallon fusion is easily a couple grand with all the equipment. I recently went all sps with top of the line frags $$$$ ..nuff said:). I started slow with AI prime led's and dosing....I was using Red Sea coral pro and my Dkh was always around 10 which was fine because I wasn't ulns. All my frags started taking off with vivid colors. I go to aquatic experience and was told ulns was the way to go with tropic Marin bio actif and prodibio. After two weeks, my tank is pristine and I mean pristine. No algae issues. I kept the high alk with my dosing pump, but the bio actif and Prodibio wiped my tank clean.

I come back after a 3 day trip and sps are pale with burnt tips from the high alk and low nutrients. I cut all the burnt tips off and my sps took a beating. I immediately started feeding the tank 2x a day with reef energy and feed my fish heavy to get the nutrients back up also lowered the lighting to a heavy blue as was suggested in this thread. I told my wife if they all head south , I'm done! I have spent so much time,money and energy trying to have a slice of the ocean. When things go wrong, it is disheartening. But when they were all colored up and thriving, I was in awe of how beautiful they looked and proud that I had something to do with that. So, that is what keeps me in this hobby... We are all here to learn and share from our experiences. Grab a beer, take a deep breath and start anew.....
 
To OP,
I am kind of in the same boat as you are now. Only difference is I am t5 now. Changed from kessil to ATI t5. Hoping to see some changes.
Please don't give up. Wish you luck.
 
There is no need to change your lights. Lights are fine. Just setup the lights so the PAR is around 150 on the sandbed. You can up the intensity later. Run lights 8 hours.

With regards to the tank itself;
1. Sort out the SG until it is 1.026
2. Take off the chemical media and only add it back once you see PO4 heading over 0.05ppm.
3. You can run some GAC, but leave of for at least two weeks.
4. Start carrying out 15% water changes every 5 days for a month. Make sure the water is mixed well and temp is matched etc.
5. Stop adding any more SPS for a month.
6. Continue to feed fish well at least 3 times a day and a variety of foods.
7. Once your done this for at least 4 weeks running, measure all the parameters and post back here.

During this time the only stuff going into your tank should be food for the fish and whatever is needed to maintain Ca/Alk/Mg and 15% w/c to be done every 5 days and SG to be maintained at 1.026.

I've had my share of problems over the years and have learnt that water changes and covering the basics can change the course of a tank in a short time.
 
I'm using Red Sea coral pro salt and all my reading are coming from salifert test kits but I use a api nitrate test to double check as it doesn't seem to matter how I test my tank the salifert test always shows 10ppm nitrates for some reason. Lights are matching the par readings in my Lfs's tanks that are thriving. His sps tank is on an ati led light that reads way higher par but his display tank that has 160's on it has low par readings that are exactly what mine are at. I am going to correct the salinity issue and remove my rowaphos to let my phos creep up a bit. Also he recommended going to either smaller water changes or doing them every 2 weeks instead of every week. It just sucks as the plan was to upgrade tanks next year but this scares me to do it. Also my rock was from my previous tank that sat dry in my garage for 2 years. I pressure washed it and cured it in my tank with microbacter.
 
sahin said:
There is no need to change your lights. Lights are fine. Just setup the lights so the PAR is around 150 on the sandbed. You can up the intensity later. Run lights 8 hours.

With regards to the tank itself;
1. Sort out the SG until it is 1.026
2. Take off the chemical media and only add it back once you see PO4 heading over 0.05ppm.
3. You can run some GAC, but leave of for at least two weeks.
4. Start carrying out 15% water changes every 5 days for a month. Make sure the water is mixed well and temp is matched etc.
5. Stop adding any more SPS for a month.
6. Continue to feed fish well at least 3 times a day and a variety of foods.
7. Once your done this for at least 4 weeks running, measure all the parameters and post back here.

During this time the only stuff going into your tank should be food for the fish and whatever is needed to maintain Ca/Alk/Mg and 15% w/c to be done every 5 days and SG to be maintained at 1.026.

I've had my share of problems over the years and have learnt that water changes and covering the basics can change the course of a tank in a short time.
Click to expand...


The lights don't even hit 150 on the sand bed at 100%. Best I got was 120 at the sand bed.
 
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