Officially throwing in the towel

[sahin]

The lights don't even hit 150 on the sand bed at 100%. Best I got was 120 at the sand bed.

That is quite OK for now. If you're using an Apogee to measure the PAR levels usually, the actual level is closer to 10% higher.

If you're using the smaller Kessils maybe add another later on. For now I'd concentrate on getting the tank in a better state.

 

[WaReefer458]

2 A360WE's on a 36" long tank. One would think that would be enough. If I go they with it the new tank would be 48x36x27. I would run the 2 kessils and like an 8 bulb ati t5 fixture.

 

[plyle02]

Rock in garage for 2 years dead, then pressure washed, then cured with micro-bacter? This is not enough to bring dead rock back to life. The rock likely needed a muriatic acid soak, followed by a bleach soak, followed by rodi soak, followed by sun dry, then rodi soak again, then into the tank. Life is within the rock, not just on the surface, so when it died, it died inside to outside. This death stays bound within the rock, so it is my guess that you are dealing with "New Tank Syndrome". Your tank is just not mature enough to handle sps at this time, your rock is still trying to become live again, despite the laden nutrients. This is likely not going to improve, so if it were me, I would purchase quality live rock and a few months later try sps again, or remove the rock in your current tank, treat properly, then seed with live rock over several months, then when coraline algae blooms within the tank, let's say about a year later, you will be fine to try starter sps frags.
Regards,

 

[nvladik]

I am going through something very similar with my tank, so I know your plain. Hang in there, keep listening to advice, keep reading and trying. You can always throw in the towel. You started the thread with "I've tried anything and everything." Per advice from some good peeps here seems there more you can try.

Following your thread to learn, opening my tank thread shortly too so there maybe some more advice on there too.

 

[WaReefer458]

I cleaned it the best I could to remove all death and decay off the rock at the time. The rock was cycled and added the microbacter along the way. I've never started with dry rock before but maybe I will add a couple pieces of established rock from my Lfs to seed it a bit better. Will be tough as my rock is already making my tank look full by my account.

 

[nycreef]

Just get T5'S OR MH'S. You'll see what we're saying is true. Don't get the Hanna egg PO4 it sucks. invest in a Milwaukee if you have the money.

 

[WaReefer458]

I'm not going back to halides. It's just not happening. Been there and done that. I'd add some t5's but with an 18" wide tank there is only so much room on top. Either way we have established lighting is not my issue.

 

[markalot]

I'm not going back to halides. It's just not happening. Been there and done that. I'd add some t5's but with an 18" wide tank there is only so much room on top. Either way we have established lighting is not my issue.

Did you mention what PAR meter you are using? I'm not believing it's that low if it looks bright to your eyes, but I could be wrong.

I grew corals just fine under Maxspect Razors but I didn't like the shadowing or the color in the tank. I agree, not the lights, but having T5 does seem to make things a little easier because, I think, it makes the tank visibly brighter so one is less likely to fry everything.

Razors with a BML strip providing some supplementation in the front.

 

[WaReefer458]

It's whatever the one was my Lfs uses. Not sure what brand. Brs did a video on all par reading on led's and the kessils were the lowest average but the best spread. I hear they measure different with the par for some reason. Either way they should be plenty as I said my Lfs uses them on all their tanks with success. And I'm getting the same readings as he was where his are all mounted.

 

[nycreef]

all i can say is good luck trying to grow and keep sps with Leds and until you know what the problem is, the lights will always be your main factor and concern. If i were you i would try one MH and see if theres a difference and keep your leds for the meantime until you have a handle on your acros. once they are doing fine you can go back to Leds and see if they work for you corals or not. I also wouldnt give up my leds until i cooked or killed enough acros to say enough is enough. I spent a lot on my leds so i also wasnt quick to replace them. Once i did i knew they were the problem not my parameters, water, pests, fish ect. you will never know unless you go back to the basics with the lights. T5 and MH are tried and true with documented success for decades.

 

[oldbones]

WaReefer, I feel your pain my friend! I wanted a nice SPS dominant tank like you do, so I had a custom built and poured the water in 6 months ago. I've had almost exactly the same issues you have, and I still haven't 100% figured them out. Fish, z's and p's and LPS doing well, but SPS struggling (and dying).

I will say that my tank has at least finally started growing coralline, it's really taking off over the last month.

I assume you are in Washington State? What part? I'm on the Kitsap Peninsula. If you're close, maybe we should meet and compare notes.

 

[nvladik]

all i can say is good luck trying to grow and keep sps with Leds and until you know what the problem is, the lights will always be your main factor and concern. If i were you i would try one MH and see if theres a difference and keep your leds for the meantime until you have a handle on your acros. once they are doing fine you can go back to Leds and see if they work for you corals or not. I also wouldnt give up my leds until i cooked or killed enough acros to say enough is enough. I spent a lot on my leds so i also wasnt quick to replace them. Once i did i knew they were the problem not my parameters, water, pests, fish ect. you will never know unless you go back to the basics with the lights. T5 and MH are tried and true with documented success for decades.

Can you please STOP pushing MH and T5, he already said no to changing lights. For every single post with "Good luck growing SPSs under LED's" there are plenty of posts with people doing exactly that. Just cause you couldn't figure it out doesn't mean everyone can't.

 

[nycreef]

Can you please STOP pushing MH and T5, he already said no to changing lights. For every single post with "Good luck growing SPSs under LED's" there are plenty of posts with people doing exactly that. Just cause you couldn't figure it out doesn't mean everyone can't.

Im not pushing anything, im saying to a person who is new to the game what would be easier to deal with when keeping sps. the people who can keep sps under leds are a minority and they have started their tanks with the basics first then switched over or they are Sps keepers for years and know what they are doing or fiddling with when it comes to their leds intensity and color spectrums. He clearly is new to the sps game and it would be easier for him to keep these corals if it was made easier for him. go ask any sps expert keeper and they will say the same thing im saying. Its not that you cant keep sps under leds, its just more difficult to know which spectrum, intensity, or colors to dial in plus your dealing with the shadowing. the guy is obviously spending tons on corals dying so why make him continue to purchase and kill than to try a different route?

 

[Icefire]

I run 2x Hydra52 @ 90% on a 24" cube with SPS 20" from light and some 4" from water surface.

120 PAR on the sand at 100% and 210 at the water surface is barely enought, you should at least put the SPS very high with 100% light.

Also that tank look still in the inital cycle and I strongly suspect you have Dinoflagelate. I have some too after using Algae Fix marine and it "could" be a problem (wasn't with mine). see how they aren't affected http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2538133

I have a hard time believing you have 0 Nitrate and 0 Phosphate... it could but I'm not so sure. The only time I had problem with SPS at first was my ALK/Sg stability

 

[Icefire]

Im not pushing anything, im saying to a person who is new to the game what would be easier to deal with when keeping sps. the people who can keep sps under leds are a minority and they have started their tanks with the basics first then switched over or they are Sps keepers for years and know what they are doing or fiddling with when it comes to their leds intensity and color spectrums. He clearly is new to the sps game and it would be easier for him to keep these corals if it was made easier for him. go ask any sps expert keeper and they will say the same thing im saying. Its not that you cant keep sps under leds, its just more difficult to know which spectrum, intensity, or colors to dial in plus your dealing with the shadowing. the guy is obviously spending tons on corals dying so why make him continue to purchase and kill than to try a different route?

Sorry but not true, I started SPS last year with years reefing without doing sps with Razor, now Hydra52 and will soon upgrade tank with Radion G2 and Lights is not that much of a problem if you have enought intensity. People failing mostly go with manufacturer recommandation and are using not enought wattage.

MH, T5, LED, for a 20-27" high tank (24" prefered), you need at least 50 watts per square foot. People try to cheap out using the less amoung because good light cost money and they try to use 36x36 or 24x24 coverage for a single 80-120w fixture, it's not gonna work.

My next 36x36x24 tank will have 4-5 Radion G2/G2 Pro, which will be around 60-75W/sqft max.

 

[WaReefer458]

I had 2 250 watt halides with VHO strips on my 75 and it damn near boiled the water.... After plumbing my tank like 4 times adding more and more equipment such as reactors and chillers and contributing to my 200$ a month electricity bill which once i broke the tank down it dropped to about 70 a month. I'm just not into halides... I've seen plenty of successful tanks with LED lighting only. I was concerned with lighting being an issue but that is not it. I already said my refractometer was not calibrated right and my salinity was stupid high. Not sure how my other corals have dealt with it for so long but my SPS just all took a dump on me 1 by one and after adding my 2nd light (thinking that was the problem) they all bleached out. I think the extra light was just the nail in the coffin for stressing to the point of death. Either way I am not famous for my patience as far as waiting for the tank to "mature" to the point I can actually finish what I started with my intentions for the tank. Not really too sure where to go from here but looking at an empty tank waiting for the day ill finally be able to start growing SPS isn't what I had in mind.... I'm just going to let the tank stabilize as far as the parameters go and continue doing weekly water changes and probably just going to add in a couple pieces of established live rock and see where it goes. Not a lot more I can do at this point.

 

[plyle02]

You can literally keep sps alive, key word ALIVE under power compacts for goodness sake, not that you would I think it is safe to assume lighting has no role in these issues the OP is having. When I looked at the pic of the FTS, I knew right away, NTS.... New Tank Syndrome. The rock in the pic is just showing the first signs of coraline. 5 months in, using dead rock not treated properly, then tossing in acros, a recipe for disaster. Again, either pull the rock, treat it properly or purchase fresh live rock from a reputable source, rock that has life teeming. If you do the later, you can add sps within months, if not just killing the rock properly will take at least 4 weeks, then you have to keep in saltwater and seed with live rock source, once you see coraline, dusters, pods, sponges, and other microlife, you are good for sps. If you think that rock will eventually turn live without a problem of leaching down the road, you will find yourself exiting the hobby. I had this happen years ago when I bought a tank off CL. The guy said the rock was and sand was dry for a year. I knew better, but I added fresh RO saltwater, new live sand bed, and a year later I tossed the rock, bryopsis about forced me out of the hobby for good... Again, laden nutrients bound within the rock that eventually seep out, as they do they can poison corals and inverts without test kits detecting, the water column hides this, just a FYI...

 

[markalot]

For LED PAR Bilk and his thread when the tank was all LED was most informative for me.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23147275&postcount=292

Acros looked good at those "low" PAR levels. He has since switched to Halide, as many SPS folks do once basic husbandry is solved and better color is desired. I thought his tank looked damn good all LED.

 

[reefmutt]

Personally, you've gotten fantastic advice from many here but what Sahin and Markalot have said is what I would stick to.
Your LEDs will work perfectly.. Just set them as sahin suggests, or even a touch lower for starters.. And then do not adjust them anymore..
Your tank is so new.. It's brand new. No surprise you are having trouble with the sps..
Do smaller water changes if you want to do them regularly but find a salt matches your parameters and aim for rock solid stability.
Your tank needs to mature..
I looked at the picks at the beginning of this thread and I thought.. 'Holy crap, they are spotless! What 'dirt' is he seeing?'
I have to clean my glass daily and I have quite litterally a hundred snails in the tank.. And hermits.. And 3 tangs.
The ocean is jam packed with clean up crews. Add a bunch for your algea.. They convert that algae to coral food..
Don't throw in the towel, man..
You may laugh but I think you are half way to a great sps tank!

 

[Wonton Soup]

It doesn't matter what lights you have as this is simply not what's killing your SPS.

Just by looking at the pictures on the first page I can tell you right now that your tank is way too young for SPS. Your frags actually look like they're experiencing alk burn and then algae is able to immediately take hold which means you've got excessive nutrient levels despite your zero test readings.
Your rock is all white underneath and it is not colonized enough for a stable reef environment.

SPS are expensive and not easy to keep. You can throw all the money you want at them but that doesn't mean you'll succeed.