oh no....sps' problem!!!!!

[CHSUB]

I'm getting concerned, because I'm seeing the early signs of sps' paling, then STNing, and finally dieing; and I'm not sure of the cause? The only recent change I see is no3 going from .5 to 2.5, which I believe is not much of a problem? but no sure? some macro algae growth due to increased food input; however, reduced feeding some recently.

Current parameters

Ph 8.3 to 8.45
Alk 8.0
Cal 400
No3 2.5
Po4 <.03 Salifert slight color.
Sg 35 , use NSW
Temp 79.5 to 81

Here is a pics of a health sps' foreground and background: good pe, color, and growth. placed lower in tank.
[URL=http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/CHSUB/media/image.jpg1_zpsi316slbx.jpg.html][/URL]

And one that was doing well, that is getting light in color? placed higher in tank; however, i have another that is doing poorly that's lower.

[URL=http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/CHSUB/media/image.jpg2_zpsmzgbztbx.jpg.html][/URL]

 

[SPotter]

are they maricultured pieces?????

 

[rfgonzo]

All parameters look pretty spot on, what type of lighting do you have and is it time to replace bulbs, if not LED? The only other thing I'd like to confirm is you say NO3 went from .5 to 2.5 which to me would mean NO3 went up? Are you sure you didn't mean NO3 went from 5 down to 2.5? Only reason I ask when my NO3 goes under 5 in my tank I can really see SPS suffer. I personally have better color/ growth with NO3 around 10.

 

[CHSUB]

are they maricultured pieces?????

hey steve,
No real pattern there. I have some wild, maricultured, and ORA sps' doing well, and some of all three starting to look pale, including an ORA frogskin that just tonight starting looking pale. I have seen this before, and it has me concerned.

All parameters look pretty spot on, what type of lighting do you have and is it time to replace bulbs, if not LED? The only other thing I'd like to confirm is you say NO3 went from .5 to 2.5 which to me would mean NO3 went up? Are you sure you didn't mean NO3 went from 5 down to 2.5? Only reason I ask when my NO3 goes under 5 in my tank I can really see SPS suffer. I personally have better color/ growth with NO3 around 10.

all bulbs are less than 2 months old: 2, 14k 400w MH, 2 ATI blue+, 2 ATI actinic. no3 when up, because of increased feeding. i'm of the opinion that no3 being lower is better, however, not sure anymore with all the opinions that seem to favor higher no3.

things i believe i have ruled out are: stray voltage, alk swings, pests.

i run GAC(changed monthly), no GFO, fug w/ macro, Calcium reactor, Sulfur Denitrator, daily 10 gallon auto waterchange w/ NSW, ATO w/6 stage RO/DI, flow is about 60 times turnover, mh 6 hours, t5 10 hours.

 

[rfgonzo]

Hmm, how about magnesium levels? Just reaching, I'm assuming they're fine if you don't have any alk swings.

 

[Big E]

How did you rule out pests? Visually isn't enough.............baby AFW are impossible to see and they will pale out acros. Bugs can be very hard to see as some do damage only at night and then hide away when the lights are on.

If all the corals that are doing bad are Acroporas I'd revisit the pest cause. At the very least I'd dip one or a few to test. They usually show some recovery in 7-10 days.

The healthy pic I see is a Stylo.

 

[CHSUB]

magnesium levels?

i have not tested in a year or so, however, i use a little dolomite in the calcium reactor. going to retest everything tonight....i think i'm going to through all "caution to the wind" and increase feeding a lot. my theory is lack of organic nutrients (solid food), just a guess, however!

just yesterday i lost a head to a large torch coral? (1 of 8 heads)

 

[CHSUB]

How did you rule out pests? Visually isn't enough.............baby AFW are impossible to see and they will pale out acros. Bugs can be very hard to see as some do damage only at night and then hide away when the lights are on.

If all the corals that are doing bad are Acroporas I'd revisit the pest cause. At the very least I'd dip one or a few to test. They usually show some recovery in 7-10 days.

The healthy pic I see is a Stylo.

visually only, maybe need to reconsider pest?

 

[ajcanale]

visually only, maybe need to reconsider pest?

Based on info provided, specifically the presence of maricultured specimens, this is the best place to start IMO.

 

[CHSUB]

pulled the worst maricultured piece, was just about gone, (stn from base and tips, pale, all pe gone) and dipped it in fresh water..no pests? however 6 or 8 tiny snails?

[URL=http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/CHSUB/media/image.jpg1_zpscjhdh1g3.jpg.html][/URL]

 

[Big E]

You really need to dip (one with Bayer or your dip choice) that is just pale and still alive............not a dead/receding one.

In other words.........one that is struggling but still intact........look to see how it does in about a week or so.

I've seen some of the most experienced SPS guys get duped for months until the pests reached plague proportions and could be seen visually or by basting.

The one you just freshwater dipped may have started a decline that couldn't be reversed even if the pests are long gone.....still basically a visual search.

 

[CHSUB]

You really need to dip (one with Bayer or your dip choice) that is just pale and still alive............not a dead/receding one.

In other words.........one that is struggling but still intact........look to see how it does in about a week or so.

I've seen some of the most experienced SPS guys get duped for months until the pests reached plague proportions and could be seen visually or by basting.

The one you just freshwater dipped may have started a decline that couldn't be reversed even if the pests are long gone.....still basically a visual search.

i see, "said the blind man"!!!

i will get some Bayer!!

 

[Nibrown9]

also check iodine, its not a common test but if idoine is low can cause color loss and lead to stn

 

[christopherjudd]

pulled the worst maricultured piece, was just about gone, (stn from base and tips, pale, all pe gone) and dipped it in fresh water..no pests? however 6 or 8 tiny snails?

[URL=http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/CHSUB/media/image.jpg1_zpscjhdh1g3.jpg.html][/URL]

Do you have any trochus snails

 

[rovster]

How well is your macro growing?

 

[CHSUB]

also check iodine, its not a common test but if idoine is low can cause color loss and lead to stn

10 g daily WC with NSW should cover all trace elements, i would think?

Do you have any trochus snails

no, a couple of turbos only, handful of blue leg hermit crabs.

How well is your macro growing?

very well in fug, harvested a basketball sized piece wed...

http://[URL=http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/CHSUB/media/image.jpg1_zpspjjvhosx.jpg.html][/URL]


ORA frogskin very pale at tips, overall color lighter than when it got it about 3 weeks ago, zero growth(placed mid-level in tank). other sps' no change, one pink stylophora looks less pale and good pe, however. did 100 wc last night with NSW and some general detritus removal.

ordered 2 more fish, and going to increase feeding!!!

 

[rovster]

Not familiar with your macro but be careful making assumptions about nutrient levels if your macro is growing healthy. I just went through that. Take my advice with a grain of salt but I would cut back light and maybe harvest a good chunk of macro and send it to me lol. Seriously though, my tank went through a funk and lots of people told me to feed more. I did the opposite and things got better. Problem is I kept my tank on a diet for too long and my macro crashed and lost all of it. I should have trimmed down my macro sooner. Anyway, it was a learning experience for me. Not telling you what to do but my macro mislead me a bit about my true nutrient levels. Hope you work it out.

 

[christopherjudd]

I found those lil snails when u dipped the acro I am having problems with.. I wonder what those snails are

 

[CHSUB]

Not familiar with your macro but be careful making assumptions about nutrient levels if your macro is growing healthy. I just went through that. Take my advice with a grain of salt but I would cut back light and maybe harvest a good chunk of macro and send it to me lol. Seriously though, my tank went through a funk and lots of people told me to feed more. I did the opposite and things got better. Problem is I kept my tank on a diet for too long and my macro crashed and lost all of it. I should have trimmed down my macro sooner. Anyway, it was a learning experience for me. Not telling you what to do but my macro mislead me a bit about my true nutrient levels. Hope you work it out.

harvested a half full, 5 gallon bucket wed, shipped some to Ohio!!!

Not sure I fully understand your recommendation. You believe your nutrients were too high? You fed less and corals improved, less dissolved nutrients?

I believe dissolved nutrients need to be at a very minimum( i.e. barely readable w/ Salifert) with large inputs of solid food whether from fish waste or spot feeding. These condition, low n and p, are particularly important if we desire fast growing, colorful sps' which need high powered lighting. I have had successful sps' growth with dimmer lighting and higher dissolved nutrients; however the corals were less colorful and grew slower than I see some achieving today. Imo, high par with low dissolved nutrients inhibits the zooxanthellae from feeding the corals, and a greater amount of the corals needs must be met by food capture. This however, results in more colorful corals; or if done incorrectly pale, malnourished corals. I have observed this while diving; the brightest corals seem to be very deep or very shallow.
This, of course, could all be false and my observations may be influenced by my believes?

This is my tank around 2000 with 6 long lived sps'; it had po4 at about .3, lit with 175 w MH and PC. Sps' never stn or paled, however, growth was very slow and color was brown by today's standards.

View attachment 313463

 

[CHSUB]

I found those lil snails when u dipped the acro I am having problems with.. I wonder what those snails are

also when dipping coral, from base!! never observed them on the coral, however they are so small i would not be able to see them as they only appear at night. i have never heard anyone suggest they are a sps' pest?