OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef
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jnarowe
New member
NBD Dog...he was just making a joke about dusters; nothing to do with you or your post. I have often thought that myself. It's a strange defensive mechanism but there are lots of animals that lose appendages to avoid predation...just can't think of any that toss their own head off! :lol:
jnarowe
New member
Well as many of you know I tend to post the good and bad of my reefkeeping experiences, mostly for lack of any "embarrassment" synapse after my stroke. 
Anyway, today definitely ended in the BAD column with me having swore more times than in the entire Gotti movie.
It all started as a routine water change after which I was going to follow Marc's advice and take the SW mixing bin outside and hose it out. Typically what I do is shut dwn the return pump, close the overflow valves, and empty the sumps. I then refill the sumps with fresh SW and turn everything back on. Easy right?
Well I noticed that it was taking a long time to empty the sumps but the outflow appeared normal. I couldn't figure out what was going on until I noticed that the water level in the tank was below the level of the overflow combs! What the hell?? I have done water changes so many times and never had anything go wrong so why was this happening?
The culprit turned out to be a 1" line off the return manifold that feeds a particle filter and returns to the sump. Somehow this line had formed a siphon and was emptying the tank. But how? It has never happened before.
So now I had drained a lot of water out of the system and I refilled the sumps with fresh SW only I now didn't have enough and when the return pump was turned back on I only had a few inches in the sumps and was blowing tons of bubbles into the tank! Can I say "CRAP" here or what?
So now I have an empty SW tank and I decide to clean it out only I discovered I forgot one union and can't actually remove it...so not thinking clearly I decide to shop-vac it out and use a towel to wipe it down only I can't reach the bottom. So I get inside and finish the job. Simple! Once I am done I drop a load of RO/DI into the SW mixing tank and mix up a batch of water. Unfortunately I only have half a batch though at about 50g but I figure that should get me somewhere and I won't have all the bubbles.
Oh mixing we will go! And I start transfering the new water and notice a bunch of water on the floor...guess what? While I was inside the SW mixing tub I screwed up the BH seal and the nice new water was going on the floor! UGH! I have cut out the pipe and installed a union so that tank is now fully removable (which is what i should have done in the first place!)
So where I stand is a perilously low sump and about a day to wait for a new batch of water. I need a drink!
Anyway, today definitely ended in the BAD column with me having swore more times than in the entire Gotti movie.
It all started as a routine water change after which I was going to follow Marc's advice and take the SW mixing bin outside and hose it out. Typically what I do is shut dwn the return pump, close the overflow valves, and empty the sumps. I then refill the sumps with fresh SW and turn everything back on. Easy right?
Well I noticed that it was taking a long time to empty the sumps but the outflow appeared normal. I couldn't figure out what was going on until I noticed that the water level in the tank was below the level of the overflow combs! What the hell?? I have done water changes so many times and never had anything go wrong so why was this happening?
The culprit turned out to be a 1" line off the return manifold that feeds a particle filter and returns to the sump. Somehow this line had formed a siphon and was emptying the tank. But how? It has never happened before.
So now I had drained a lot of water out of the system and I refilled the sumps with fresh SW only I now didn't have enough and when the return pump was turned back on I only had a few inches in the sumps and was blowing tons of bubbles into the tank! Can I say "CRAP" here or what?
So now I have an empty SW tank and I decide to clean it out only I discovered I forgot one union and can't actually remove it...so not thinking clearly I decide to shop-vac it out and use a towel to wipe it down only I can't reach the bottom. So I get inside and finish the job. Simple! Once I am done I drop a load of RO/DI into the SW mixing tank and mix up a batch of water. Unfortunately I only have half a batch though at about 50g but I figure that should get me somewhere and I won't have all the bubbles.
Oh mixing we will go! And I start transfering the new water and notice a bunch of water on the floor...guess what? While I was inside the SW mixing tub I screwed up the BH seal and the nice new water was going on the floor! UGH! I have cut out the pipe and installed a union so that tank is now fully removable (which is what i should have done in the first place!)
So where I stand is a perilously low sump and about a day to wait for a new batch of water. I need a drink!
melev
Well-known member
I did some work on my tank this evening. I rearranged a few corals, blew off some cyano, created a few frags accidentally, cleaned out the sump as best I could, and did a 55g water change.
I'm glad it is done, but even more glad my night wasn't like yours!
Perhaps you should have started off with a Budweiser Select (Aluminum bottle). 
jnarowe
New member
yeah a Bud would have been good but after my stroke I dare not when I have to make any decisions...tell me about the cyano. You blow it off and then what? is that the only way to get rid of it? Some articles say that cyano is not really all that bad unless it starts to take over. I have some of that and a few bubble algae cropping up here and there...too bad the tank is so deep, I can't pick them off!
tinygiants
New member
Siphons suck. Literaly.
The 1" line that caused the siphon needs to either be shortened inside the tank, or a siphon breaker hole needs to be added at the low water level point. That siphone will get you in the event of a power outage as well as a water change.
Dale
The 1" line that caused the siphon needs to either be shortened inside the tank, or a siphon breaker hole needs to be added at the low water level point. That siphone will get you in the event of a power outage as well as a water change.
Dale
jnarowe
New member
yeah I realize that, but I built it exactly as you stated and I can't figure out what happened. The only thing I have changed is I made the suspect hose longer so that it lays in the sump and doesn't cause micro bubbles. This never happened before I did that, but I just can't get my head around why lengthening the hose caused it to create a siphon. Maybe you have an idea dale?
tinygiants
New member
If an end is in the tank, and another is in the sump = instant siphon. To break the siphon, you have options.
1. Check valves = bad idea, it will fail when you need it.
2. siphon breaker holes in the line = better idea, unless it clogs from debris, salt or a snail.
3. shorten the hose in the tank so it will loose suction prior to water level going below the desired point. If I needed a feed from the tank, I would take that feed from the overflow. That way you can never drain below the combs.
Dale
1. Check valves = bad idea, it will fail when you need it.
2. siphon breaker holes in the line = better idea, unless it clogs from debris, salt or a snail.
3. shorten the hose in the tank so it will loose suction prior to water level going below the desired point. If I needed a feed from the tank, I would take that feed from the overflow. That way you can never drain below the combs.
Dale
tinygiants
New member
Looking back at your post, it may not be the 1" line that is the source of the water. If that line is on a manifold, then the source could be any of the lines attached to the manifold.
Make sure the manifold becomes vented when power goes off (accidentaly and intentionally). This can be an open ended line going to the refugium or a return nozzle at the surface of the tank. When power is interrupted, a siphon will start until that vented line becomes exposed to air. Then it will "slurp" air until the siphon is killed. If the siphon does not die, then the vent is not large enough.
Dale
Make sure the manifold becomes vented when power goes off (accidentaly and intentionally). This can be an open ended line going to the refugium or a return nozzle at the surface of the tank. When power is interrupted, a siphon will start until that vented line becomes exposed to air. Then it will "slurp" air until the siphon is killed. If the siphon does not die, then the vent is not large enough.
Dale
What a total hassle just for that!! Well at least I know what happened. Thanks! tinygiants
New member
I would create a line with the sole purpose of being the vent. That way the accident cannot be repeated.
If you make one of the returns a surface return, it will give you nice ripples for the Metal Halide shimmer. It will also act as a vent if the water power goes out and the water level drops below the line.
Dale
If you make one of the returns a surface return, it will give you nice ripples for the Metal Halide shimmer. It will also act as a vent if the water power goes out and the water level drops below the line.
Dale
tinygiants
New member
With your self admitted "handicap", I would engineer around your memory. Work on the fuge caused this problem, I bet you would be tempted to turn it off again in the future for something.
In my tank, my return nozzles are all about 1/2" below the surface of the water. That happens to be the same level as the overflow teeth. So in a power outage, I loose suction in the siphon just before My drain quits draining.
In my tank, my return nozzles are all about 1/2" below the surface of the water. That happens to be the same level as the overflow teeth. So in a power outage, I loose suction in the siphon just before My drain quits draining.
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