OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
BigJay
New member
You could always record your next attempt at placing something in your tank, it would be an instant youtube hit.
Sorry to hear that she's such a problem for you, I bet it's a beautiful fish though. I've always had a thing for the maroons.
Thanks for the story, I haven't laughed this hard in weeks.
jnarowe
New member
Kevin and I are going to test 4 kinds of kalkwasser and a sample of Mrs. Wages.
Background: I have been using kalk since I started my system and for quite a while it went very well, but as of late, the results have not been so good. Originally I brought in some Seachem, ESV, and Custom Aquatic's generic powder. I used up the Custom generic and the Seachem, which both seemed to work fine, but since the switch to the ESV, I have noticed a lot of residue in the reactor and very little in the way of pH bump or alkalinity stability.
Throughout the Winter both Kevin and I have had problems maintaining alkalinity and I had blamed it on low evap. rates. But now we have lost that "excuse". I have been dosing baked baking soda like mad to make up the difference, and we finally both got tired of it and decided to test some kalk powders to find a good one.
Method: Kevin and I will both test these and post the results within this thread. I use a Barr Aquatic KR3020 magnetic stirrer coupled with a LiterMeter III and controlled as well by my tank controller, an ACIII Pro. My typical evap./top-off rate is 14g per day during the Summer.
Kevin uses a Geo reactor controlled by a Tunze Osmolator, also controlled by an ACIII.
To test we are going to clean and re-fill our reactors with fresh product and run it for a week. At the week's end, we will report on performance including pH and alkalinity, visible residue, as well as any results we get when testing for contaminants.
Cleaning consists of completely draining the reactor, wiping out any residue, a quick vinegar bath, and rinse with RO/DI water. I will be using 250g for each test.
Science? Not. We are not scientists and can only test these products from the hobbyist viewpoint and available materials and information. While we will report on our findings, they are in no way meant to infer scientific data. This is just a opportunity to add to our collective "data base" and come to some conclusion for our own needs based on our systems.
Reminder: Products change. Suppliers change. Our results are not set in stone and are not terribly accurate. What we may find in the next couple of weeks may not be true a year from now, and it is incumbant on any dedicated hobbyist to do their own testing and make the appropriate buying decision.
Products:
1. Two Little Fishes Kalkwasser: Ingredients: Calium, Hydroxide.
2. Warner Marine Reef Pure Kalkwasser: Ingredients: None. I know there is a stigma asociated with this brand and I generally will not use any product that does not list its ingredients, but this product was recommended by Steve Weast. He judges purity by the products effect on his system and the amount of residue accumulated in the reactor.
3. ROWA kalk: Ingredients: Calcium Hydroxide, 98.2%.
4. Custom Aquatic Generic Brand: Ingredients: None. Again I have used this product before with good results, but do not have access to any published ingredients or purity.
5. Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime: Ingredients: Food grade calcium hydroxide. This is a popular DIY substitute and I am excited to finally test this product.
Background: I have been using kalk since I started my system and for quite a while it went very well, but as of late, the results have not been so good. Originally I brought in some Seachem, ESV, and Custom Aquatic's generic powder. I used up the Custom generic and the Seachem, which both seemed to work fine, but since the switch to the ESV, I have noticed a lot of residue in the reactor and very little in the way of pH bump or alkalinity stability.
Throughout the Winter both Kevin and I have had problems maintaining alkalinity and I had blamed it on low evap. rates. But now we have lost that "excuse". I have been dosing baked baking soda like mad to make up the difference, and we finally both got tired of it and decided to test some kalk powders to find a good one.
Method: Kevin and I will both test these and post the results within this thread. I use a Barr Aquatic KR3020 magnetic stirrer coupled with a LiterMeter III and controlled as well by my tank controller, an ACIII Pro. My typical evap./top-off rate is 14g per day during the Summer.
Kevin uses a Geo reactor controlled by a Tunze Osmolator, also controlled by an ACIII.
To test we are going to clean and re-fill our reactors with fresh product and run it for a week. At the week's end, we will report on performance including pH and alkalinity, visible residue, as well as any results we get when testing for contaminants.
Cleaning consists of completely draining the reactor, wiping out any residue, a quick vinegar bath, and rinse with RO/DI water. I will be using 250g for each test.
Science? Not. We are not scientists and can only test these products from the hobbyist viewpoint and available materials and information. While we will report on our findings, they are in no way meant to infer scientific data. This is just a opportunity to add to our collective "data base" and come to some conclusion for our own needs based on our systems.
Reminder: Products change. Suppliers change. Our results are not set in stone and are not terribly accurate. What we may find in the next couple of weeks may not be true a year from now, and it is incumbant on any dedicated hobbyist to do their own testing and make the appropriate buying decision.
Products:
1. Two Little Fishes Kalkwasser: Ingredients: Calium, Hydroxide.
2. Warner Marine Reef Pure Kalkwasser: Ingredients: None. I know there is a stigma asociated with this brand and I generally will not use any product that does not list its ingredients, but this product was recommended by Steve Weast. He judges purity by the products effect on his system and the amount of residue accumulated in the reactor.
3. ROWA kalk: Ingredients: Calcium Hydroxide, 98.2%.
4. Custom Aquatic Generic Brand: Ingredients: None. Again I have used this product before with good results, but do not have access to any published ingredients or purity.
5. Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime: Ingredients: Food grade calcium hydroxide. This is a popular DIY substitute and I am excited to finally test this product.
Last edited:
jnarowe
New member
Good question. We will provide graphs. Currently my tank is not getting above 8.10 pH and going as low as 7.8 at night. It is really ticking me off BTW, hence I am going to do something about it!
This is an area that I really need to improve upon. It's the one problem I have with my husbandry and I want to solve it so I can get my corals to grow stronger. pH and alkalinity swings are what I think are responsible for most of my coral issues over the last two years.
I have good equipment and a decent understanding of the basic chemistry needs of the system, but I just have not landed in an area of long-term consistency. I believe that is the missing ingredient that every TOTM has down to a "science".
This is an area that I really need to improve upon. It's the one problem I have with my husbandry and I want to solve it so I can get my corals to grow stronger. pH and alkalinity swings are what I think are responsible for most of my coral issues over the last two years.
I have good equipment and a decent understanding of the basic chemistry needs of the system, but I just have not landed in an area of long-term consistency. I believe that is the missing ingredient that every TOTM has down to a "science".
SERVO
New member
So we have some goals now do we???
:lol:
I'm really interested to see what you come up with, but I would run the test for 4 weeks each. That will give you a better time base to judge any pH changes/ca/alk over a long term. Technically, the powder that has the best rate of saturation should give you a pump in your Ca/Alk, but technically CaOH is CaOH
jnarowe
New member
Not a goal to be TOTM, but I want to up my game. I can grow some nice corals, but I do not have the stability I need to get very large colonies. It seems that the instability in alkalinity leads to premature coral failure (PCF). I can get corals to grow to about 8" x 8" and then something happens and they check out.
This is not a hard set rule, but a pattern I have seen over time.
"technically CaOH is CaOH" seems to be plausible, but in practice, I am seeing considerable variation in the media in terms of residue and effectiveness. The ESU works for about three days and then seems to lose potency, for lack of a better term. It also generates quite a bit of brown residue which I think can be assumed is made up of impurities.
So I hope others will chime in with any additional "data" they can share, but our plan is to determine the best one to use now so we can get our systems back on track.
This is not a hard set rule, but a pattern I have seen over time.
"technically CaOH is CaOH" seems to be plausible, but in practice, I am seeing considerable variation in the media in terms of residue and effectiveness. The ESU works for about three days and then seems to lose potency, for lack of a better term. It also generates quite a bit of brown residue which I think can be assumed is made up of impurities.
So I hope others will chime in with any additional "data" they can share, but our plan is to determine the best one to use now so we can get our systems back on track.
JCTewks
In Memoriam
Do you think it is possible that the "brown residue" is not a direct impurity, but rather a bacterial film? There are some bacterias that could thrive in the high PH of the reactor...I;m not sure of this, just a thought that I would throw out there. IF it is a bacteria, there could be a certain impurity in the ESV CaOH that is not inthe others that would lead to increased bacterial growth...and the "reduction in potency" noted after 3 days time could be from bacterial colonization of the surface of the individual CaOH grains that limits their dissolution?
"talk amongst yourselves" (form SNL's "Church ladies" skit):lol:
"talk amongst yourselves" (form SNL's "Church ladies" skit):lol:
jnarowe
New member
Sure that's possible, but with a marked difference between supposedly equal products, I have a hard time believeing that a bacterial growth would be the residue.
But, sampling it and posting some pics would be a good start to figuring that out. I am calling it a "residue" because that is what I have heard from others. Basically, it is a brown layer. But, hen the reactor stirs it up, we are getting contact with the lower layers, so I wonder about the residue affecting potency.
Interesting thought Jeff. I will add that to my look-see.
But, sampling it and posting some pics would be a good start to figuring that out. I am calling it a "residue" because that is what I have heard from others. Basically, it is a brown layer. But, hen the reactor stirs it up, we are getting contact with the lower layers, so I wonder about the residue affecting potency.
Interesting thought Jeff. I will add that to my look-see.
JCTewks
In Memoriam
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12936696#post12936696 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Sure that's possible, but with a marked difference between supposedly equal products, I have a hard time believeing that a bacterial growth would be the residue.
Interesting thought Jeff. I will add that to my look-see.
In think the key word in that statement is "supposedly"
jnarowe
New member
Kevin and I got together today and further discussed our "method" and decided that we are going to let each kalk powder run its course rather than limit them to one week. Based on input from SERVO and our own thoughts about this, we have decided to forgo our own "benefit" and try to better determine the "potency" of each product. This requires letting them run until we see some marked decline in pH and alkalinity.
We have also decided (since I have a bucket), to add in SeaChem. I and a couple other reef keepers have had decent results with this product, so we felt we should add it to the testing.
First impression: Two Little Fishes Kalkwasser looks visulaly more "pure" than the ESU. This is a stupid comparisson from a scientific viewpoint, but to me, it is cleaner looking. Perhaps more white is a good description, but it has a purer look to it.
I have had some correspondence with Warner Marine and am really excited to try out their product. I hope that we can get manufacturers to weigh in with their thoughts on how to judge product quality and maybe work out some cost/benefit relationships.
It has been suggested by a good friend and marine biologist that we try a lab grade calcium hydroxide. This seems like a good idea so I will research this and figure out if we can source one that is reasonably available to the general public.
We have also decided (since I have a bucket), to add in SeaChem. I and a couple other reef keepers have had decent results with this product, so we felt we should add it to the testing.
First impression: Two Little Fishes Kalkwasser looks visulaly more "pure" than the ESU. This is a stupid comparisson from a scientific viewpoint, but to me, it is cleaner looking. Perhaps more white is a good description, but it has a purer look to it.
I have had some correspondence with Warner Marine and am really excited to try out their product. I hope that we can get manufacturers to weigh in with their thoughts on how to judge product quality and maybe work out some cost/benefit relationships.
It has been suggested by a good friend and marine biologist that we try a lab grade calcium hydroxide. This seems like a good idea so I will research this and figure out if we can source one that is reasonably available to the general public.
jnarowe
New member
Thanks Kent! Anything to add?
I want to add a little more info. about our dosing method, and I am a bit surprised no one has asked about the dual control. Kevin's reactor is a pump type and mine is a magnetic stirrer. Because both of these reactors really stir up a cloud in the reactor, we have our tank controllers shut down the dosers during and for a period after each stir. In my case it is during and for an hour after, and Kevin's is during and for two hours after a stir.
I want to add a little more info. about our dosing method, and I am a bit surprised no one has asked about the dual control. Kevin's reactor is a pump type and mine is a magnetic stirrer. Because both of these reactors really stir up a cloud in the reactor, we have our tank controllers shut down the dosers during and for a period after each stir. In my case it is during and for an hour after, and Kevin's is during and for two hours after a stir.
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