OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef

[melev]

I just read a thread last night where a guy turns his on for 7 seconds every two days. He did a series of tests and found that the pH in the reactor didn't change whether it was on for seconds or minutes. He chose to keep it at 7 seconds to avoid the precipitant from getting into the mixing pump.

 

[jnarowe]

wow, that's interesting. For me, it's really not about tank pH. Mine is always in a safe zone. I am much more concerned with stable alkalinity and hence the attention to stirring.

I am in the other camp and wish I had purchased a Deltec reactor that stirs constantly without clouding the water. But I have experimented with stir times and frequency and right now, twice a day is about right. As the coral mass grows, I will probably have to kick that up.

Ultimately I will have to start a drip as well. Kevin and I have both come close to "throwing in the towel" on kalk and switching to the Balling method, but after much discussion we decided that more due diligence regarding kalk was warranted.

 

[jnarowe]

Did my first round of tests today.

7:00pm:
Tank
Temp = 81.4
pH = 8.13 (probe)
Ca reactor pH = 6.42
dKh = 8.4 (Salifert)
PO4 = 0 (Merck)
NO2 = 0 (Seachem)
NO3 = 0 (Seachem)

Kalk Effluent
dKh = 92 (Salifert)
PO4 = 0 (Merck)
NO2 = 0 (Seachem)
NO3 = 0 (Seachem)
Silicate = 0 (Seachem)
Ammonia = 0 - .01? (API)

Reactor is crystal clear and low on powder. I was very happy to see my calcium reactor running normally today. That was very nice to see such an immediate change.

The ammonia result is probably incorrect but I included it because I did the test 3 times and it seems like there may be a trace amount. Because I never test for ammonia in my display, the test is old and of dubious condition.

 

[melev]

92 dKH? Seriously?

 

[Kurt03]

very interested to see what you come up with. Ive used Mrs. wages for over a year, has worked great for me and only $2-$3 a lb.

92dkh is crazy! How many times did you have to refill the dropper?
Or did you dilute it? A time line of pics of the reactor running each product might help as well. You dont need the camera at the shop work can wait!

 

[jnarowe]

Yup. 92 dKh. A bit of a stunner for me too. Most I have ever tested before was 62. With the Salifert test on the low resolution method it was just under 4 ml IIRC. (or was it 3ml? dammit I can't remember now)

I thought about pics but I just couldn't get my head around the value. What would we be looking for, a clear reactor? lack of residue?

 

[melev]

I've never tested kalkwasser for alkalinity, but I do think you should test it for pH. Why omit one of the most important numbers people usually measure? We always read that it measures 12, so let's see if your various products all meet that level or not.

 

[jnarowe]

Well, I don't have a decent pH test to be honest. I'll look around and see what I can find. I could use a probe as well, but I don't want to plate the thing every time I test. Not even sure if the results would be correct going from SW to freshwater, but maybe someone can chime in on that.

The effluent pH doesn't really matter to me BTW. What matters is the tank pH and there are so many variables between the reactor and the tank, that I judge "pH performance" by the effect it has on the system. I don't feel that measuring effluent pH has much meaning.

I base that on reading several articles not the least of which were written by RHF stating that pH is a much more complex mechanism than just the average of two liquids combined. That's why measuring the pH of water change water is basically irrelevant.

So we have a cross-purpose issue here. The "real" reason for dosing kalkwasser is to boost system alkalinity to keep up with demand. The reason why many reef keepers are dosing it so early in their reef's life, is that a calcium reactor has a downward (negative) pull on system pH.

So for me, I had to start running kalk so my Ca reactor could run longer and I could keep up with coral demands. The reality is, when I was changing water @ 80g/week, my coral demands were fairly well met, using a salt high in the various elements we test for. But, because the coral mass was low, I was floating up in alkalinity too high, causing stress to my corals.

So again, I am trying to step up my game to get more growth, but as we all know this is a balancing act.

BTW, I have not mentioned my targets:

Ca: 420
alk: 9 dKh
Mg: 1400

I know that is slighty out-of-whack with accepted ratios, but this is where I see the best health and growth in my system.

 

[melev]

I've not had that problem, but then again my corals aren't near what Weatherson has been able to pull off either.

When my calcium reactor is dialed in properly, alk and ca are pretty much rock solid month after month. This year, I tried a new media and it kind of threw off my numbers. I tested alk two nights ago, and it was back down to 8 dKH, but then again the feed pump has a quick disconnect that was full of detritus. I had to pull that apart to clean it out, and hopefully it will now be more consistent.

Since every tank is different, the demand in your system may be unlike what I have in mine. I would think that they would be similar, since you and I tend to run a mixed reef. The difference is water volume, and perhaps brand of salt if you feel that is a factor. I only do a monthly water change, where you said you did it weekly. My lack of changing as often leads me to think the brand of salt may not be all that important -- but I could be wrong about that. I think it is about parameters, but my view may be myopic or naive.

 

[jnarowe]

salts are a very interesting topic. one I am keenly aware of. but if you are doing large water changes with a salt that has a lot of alk, Ca, and Mg in it, then your system needs would be theoretically lower.

I still have not reached this "rock solid" state, and that is what is bugging me the most. Hence this little side-trip into kalk media. I believe that most of my coral health issues are due to swings in alkalinity, and perhaps maybe a contributing factor to the untimely demise of my clams. I was battling alk dips for a long time.

 

[jnarowe]

Well, I have been trying to post for two hours...

Anyway, I found out today that I don't have a test that will measure pH that high. ALl I have is an old API that only goes up to 8.8 (+/- 5.0 :lol: ).

I did pop a probe in and got a reading of 11.4, but again, I have no idea how accurate that is since it is going from SW to essentially fresh water.

 

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12955914#post12955914 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Well, I have been trying to post for two hours...

I think I got an email everytime you tried. I had 21 emails for this thread and not one post until now

 

[jnarowe]

I am so sorry guys. I guess I should report that stuff instead of trying to repost.

So we have a tank alk of 8.6 dKh as tested by my 11-year-old son. I alos added more kalk to the reactor (still Two Little Fishes) since there was nothing but about a 1 inch ring around the bottom.

 

[jnarowe]

Post from Kevin:

Okay, so it has taken me a while to get myself involved in this thread too. I cleaned out my reactor this evening and added 1/4 of a cup of Rowa Kalk to my reactor. My current alkalanity is 8.0 dKH (Salifert), tank calcium level is 420 (Salifert), tank pH 8.03 (probe), CA reactor pH 6.39 (probe) and temp is 77.8. I have been having a lot of alkalinity troubles over the past few months. My alkalinity wants to dip below 7.0 and I have had to dose B-ionic Alkalinity buffer every week along with B-ionic Calcium buffer since my calcium reactor is hardly ever on due to low pH levels. My calcium reactor does not turn on unless my tank pH is above 8.10.

 

[jnarowe]

My tank pH was above 8.10 for much more of the day, keeping my calcium reactor running much better than I have seen it in quite a while.

 

[jnarowe]

Kevin brought up an interesting point that adding more kalk is like re-setting the clock, but I am not convinced that is true. I think because of the size of my reactor, the saturation point is quite high, so 250g just isn't enough to get it "online" and run for a while. Although I have never measured the amount, I would guess that I generally put in about 3+ cups at a time.

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12956369#post12956369 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Post from Kevin:

Okay, so it has taken me a while to get myself involved in this thread too. I cleaned out my reactor this evening and added 1/4 of a cup of Rowa Kalk to my reactor. My current alkalanity is 8.0 dKH (Salifert), tank calcium level is 420 (Salifert), tank pH 8.03 (probe), CA reactor pH 6.39 (probe) and temp is 77.8. I have been having a lot of alkalinity troubles over the past few months. My alkalinity wants to dip below 7.0 and I have had to dose B-ionic Alkalinity buffer every week along with B-ionic Calcium buffer since my calcium reactor is hardly ever on due to low pH levels. My calcium reactor does not turn on unless my tank pH is above 8.10.

Due to the low alkalinity level, the pH cannot rise. He'd have to reprogram his controller for now to allow the calcium reactor to be on. The effluent should come out slower, the pH within the reactor would have to be lower, and assuming his media is still good, the alkalinity will rise.

Once it is up higher, the pH will rise accordingly. And the controller would not keep turning it off.

He may need to buffer daily rather than weekly to get this back in line, or do a huge water change or two to level the parameters.

How come he isn't posting himself?

 

[DgenR8]

Just fixin' a stuck thread, don't mind me.

For future reference, if you try to post but can't, or get a ton of reply notifications, and when you look, there are no replies, please report the thread to someone on staff (or, use the "report this post to a moderator" link at the bottom of any post in the thread) so we can fix it. The fix is simple, when we know about the problem, but the strain it puts on the board while the problem exists is tremendous.

 

[jnarowe]

Thanks Larry.

Marc,

Kevin is posting on the "original" thread on RF and rather than give him more work, I am copying stuff over as needed.

I don't follow you on re=programming the reactor to be on more, since that would force the tank pH even lower. Maybe I am missing something?

 

[jnarowe]

Some good news to report: Kevin and I both noticed that Saturday was a flat day with low "performace" but yesterday it was back in line for my system, once I remembered to reset my exhaust fan.

I was getting higher than normal tank temps. and had shut off the exhaust fan temporarily to vacuum the vent. When I turned it back on, I did not set the temp. to the correct level, thereby creating a warm and very humid environment. This in turn lowered my evap. and top-off rate.

To my pleasure, this morning the tank was still above 8.0 pH which means top-off was working correctly. I have been doing tests periodically and will post graphs when sufficient time has passed. I still have not added any more kalk since that last time and it is still looking good.