OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef

[Electrobes]

lol

I live in the exact right spot.. if you go a little more north of where I am there is snow.. I think it may have snowed for about 2 seconds, once last year.

 

[jnarowe]

I know it's been a while, but I am suffering some serious physical problems once again which keep me from posting as much as I would like to. I am following a few threads and post once-in-a-while, but my own is sorely lacking for the above mentioned reason. (how's that for wordy?)

Anyhow, it appears I am going to lose my supply of OceanPure Pro salt, and have been looking at other salts to prepare for my next buy.

I got and tested getanked salt but mixed it with the calcium and got this:

Salinity: 1.024 (refractometer)
Alkalinity: 3.8 dKh (Salifert)
Calcium: 400 ppm (Salifert)
Magnesium: 1320 ppm (Salifert)
Ammonia: 0 (API)
Silicate: 0 (Seachem)
Nitrite: 0 (Seachem)
Nitrate: 0 (Seachem)
Phosphate: 0 - .008 (D-D)

Obviously alk was very low but then I found out from the maker that I wasn't supposed to add the Calcium into it because it would precipitate out the alk. Upon further investigation, I verified that, made a new batch, and got a normal dKh. This salt does impress me, although there is somewhat of a learning curve to using it correctly.

And then, on a lark I picked up a bucket of Red Sea Pro and tested it tonight. I know Marc has reviewed this salt in the past, but I have been in several discussions in which reef keepers were not entirely trusting of that report. I guess that goes with the territory of being tied into the business on multiple levels.

So here are my results:

Salinity: 1.026 (refractomer)
Alkalinity: 6.6 dKh (Salifert)
Calcium: 425 ppm (Salifert)
Magnesium: 1275 ppm (Salifert)
Silicate: .05 mq/l (SeaChem)
Ammonia: 0 (AP)
Phosphate: 0 (D-D/Merk)

That's pretty good IMO. The dKh is too low for me, but it certainly would be good for Zeo-Heads right out of the box. I have to admit I am surprised at the lack of phosphates and ammonia, as well as the very low presence of silicates.

 

[gkarshens]

That is what I have been using and I have been pretty happy with it.

 

[michika]

I has a lot of great results with Red Sea Pro. I did note the low dKH, but overall I was happiest with it as my salt then any other brand I've used. Although it seems that no one carries it regularly.

 

[jnarowe]

My hot button, besides the alkalinity, is silicates. In my research for growing DIBS snails, I learned that silicates are an effective way to stimulate algal growth, so we really do not want to see any of that in our salts either. Overall, I would definitely use the Red Sea Pro, especially if I was in a pinch.

 

[Bax]

Sorry to hear your still troubled so much J.

Especially around the holidays and all that really bites.

I wish you the best, and a swifter recovery.

Kinda suprised that the Getanked & Red Sea salt is so impressive. I have to admit I use IO and I do have to adjust dkh & Ca but I am used to it.

 

[jnarowe]

Thanks for the well wishes. I really appreciate that. Regarding IO or any other salt, often it's what we don't normally test for that can be a real problem. Sure we can bump alk and Ca, but are we removing ammonia and silicate?

And really, for what we are paying in the hobby for salt, shouldn't they ALL be clean and have the right mixture of elements? I fully understand low-alk salts for those that keep their tanks that way, and fish-only salts that don't bother with ca, alk, & mg, but how about labeling them "correctly" and charging accordingly?

And don't be impressed with tests done by individual hobbyists. Our tests have a wide range of interpretation, and the salts typically have a wide range of parameters.

In my case this is somewhat mitigated by the fact that I use entire bags or buckets when I make water, so the settling issue is not prominent like for smaller tanks.

 

[jacksandgo]

Jonathan, you're posts make me miss my tank already, and I'm just now breaking it down. Never realize how much I loved all my big tangs until they were gone for two days. Good luck with everything and thanks for the great info. I'm out of the hobby for awhile...not enough time. Maybe someday I'll be back...bigger and better.

 

[jnarowe]

Time is crucial IMO. And we never seem to have enough of it!

 

[jacksandgo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14132364#post14132364 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Time is crucial IMO. And we never seem to have enough of it!

Absolutely. Time work on stuff....and time to read and study...preferably BEFORE you do stuff! :lol:

 

[jacksandgo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14132781#post14132781 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jacksandgo
Absolutely. Time "to" work on stuff....and time to read and study...preferably BEFORE you do stuff! :lol:

Had to insert a "to" in there. Sheesh...I need to proof read before I post.

 

[jnarowe]

no big deal. we ALL do it! :lol:

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14120361#post14120361 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
And then, on a lark I picked up a bucket of Red Sea Pro and tested it tonight. I know Marc has reviewed this salt in the past, but I have been in several discussions in which reef keepers were not entirely trusting of that report. I guess that goes with the territory of being tied into the business on multiple levels.

Marc who? Me? In all the years of my being in this hobby, the one brand I've used the most is Kent Sea Salt. Probably 9 years. The Red Sea Pro salt is really good, and while I don't like the buckets (because the handles can break off far too easily), my reef has responded nicely to it.

I buy the salt like any other hobbyist, which makes me think you were talking about a different Marc perhaps.

Sorry you've not been feeling well.

 

[jnarowe]

:lol: Is there any other Marc?

What I was saying is that you are are pretty tied into the business at this point, no matter how you buy. You review a lot of products, especially on that show you do, and because of that and your position with RC, many people will be suspicious of where your loyalty lays. As you know, I don't communicate effectively so I was worried about that post after-the-fact. It's not a slight on you, but just a reality of being in any business.

When people come into my store, even though I am straight up about everything I sell (and therefore not a wealthy man ), customers still might suspicious of my intentions because I am trying to sell them something. Fact of life.

I don't like buckets either, but just because they take up too much space. And I would have liked to see a zero result for silicates. If that had been the case, this would be on my short list rather than the back-up list.

Thank you for the well wishes. It's very traumatic having a brain injury and a back injury. I got very frustrated this morning because I couldn't put my socks on.

 

[Leonardo_]

I use Red Sea Pro for a year now, I use it 50/50 with KZ Reefers best Premium. I really like if for its slightly high calcium compared to the Alk.

Sorry to hear about your condition, I wish you all the best.
Love the snow pictures, wish we had that winters here in The Netherlands

Leonardo

 

[jnarowe]

I am watching your thread closely Leonardo. I am always debating the sand issue and like to keep track of BB tanks and their condition over time. And thanks for the feedback on the salt, and I agree, the slighty high calcium works well for me too.

 

[Leonardo_]

You're welcome Jonathan. Do you have any concerns with the conditions of BB systems over time? Just curious...

After seeing the substrate in Ed's tank I'm thinking of adding a very thin layer (0,4") of Zeovit Aragonite.

Leonardo

 

[jnarowe]

It all depends on the reef keeper IMO. Keeping a bare bottom tank requires a very high level of attention to detail and is probably not suited to the average hobbyist. Sand adds some "buffer" not just chemically but as a media for polutants.

It is my contention though, that if you do keep any kind of sand bed, that you don't fool yourself into thinking you have created a "natural environment" and allow the sand to become a cesspool. I guess what I would reecommend to anyone using a sand bed is to maintain it not through sand-sifting creatures, but rather by replacing portions of it throughout the reef's life. I believe swapping out about 1/3 of the sand every 8 - 12 months would provide fresh media and a lower risk profile.

Having said that, the system MUST be designed for easy access to the sand bed. Please keep in mind this is just my opinion and can be a hotly debated subject. I believe reefs do better with sand in them, but with a more "media" mentality than what we typically see. I would never use any sand other than bonafide aragonite/coral bones either.

Without sand there is much less room for error IMO. And may I say, your corals look fantastic?

Also, I would not allow sand to collect under rocks. This is an invitation to detritus piles, and when I remodel my system, the rocks will be on stilts with tremedous flow under them, and the sand will be remotely held in easy to reach vats.

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14145457#post14145457 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
:lol: Is there any other Marc?

What I was saying is that you are are pretty tied into the business at this point, no matter how you buy. You review a lot of products, especially on that show you do, and because of that and your position with RC, many people will be suspicious of where your loyalty lays. As you know, I don't communicate effectively so I was worried about that post after-the-fact. It's not a slight on you, but just a reality of being in any business.

When people come into my store, even though I am straight up about everything I sell (and therefore not a wealthy man ), customers still might suspicious of my intentions because I am trying to sell them something. Fact of life.

I don't like buckets either, but just because they take up too much space. And I would have liked to see a zero result for silicates. If that had been the case, this would be on my short list rather than the back-up list.

Thank you for the well wishes. It's very traumatic having a brain injury and a back injury. I got very frustrated this morning because I couldn't put my socks on.

Yes, I know of quite a few Marcs, which is why I asked.

If I worked for any of the parent companies, I'd understand what you are saying. However, since I buy mine from the LFS down the street, after trying a bucket <i>that I bought</i> and tested it, I guess I don't see this particular link. Perception is everything, and I do realize that my site and the podcast does put my opinion out there quite a bit, plus my activities with RC and Reefkeeping Magazine.

That being said, since I don't sell anything remotely close to salt, I'd like to think my opinion is just one among many. And no matter what I stated in the past, a ton (literally) of salt has been made since and whatever is in the four buckets in my garage currently may not be quite the same as what I tested when I first started using it.

I do test each bucket after it is opened to make sure the water has the quality I need, as I discussed in this article:

How to Change Water in Your Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-11/nftt/index.php

I work for myself, like you. I don't work for Red Sea, Central Pets, or anyone else. I just wanted to clarify that point because when I read your original post, it seemed a little misleading.

Have you noticed that both Anthony Calfo and Steven Pro work for IceCap now, btw? That was a surprising turn of events, to me anyway. Pro was working for Red Sea last year.

 

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14146983#post14146983 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
And no matter what I stated in the past, a ton (literally) of salt has been made since and whatever is in the four buckets in my garage currently may not be quite the same as what I tested when I first started using it.

This is so true. Dangerously so in some cases!

I do test each bucket after it is opened to make sure the water has the quality I need, as I discussed in this article:

How to Change Water in Your Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-11/nftt/index.php

The problem with testing a bucket after it is opened, is how much it has settled. This is a real problem as elements mixed into the salt have different masses and settle out to different depths. Because I make quite a bot of water at one time, I don't have this issue, but many reef keepers may only do 5 or 10g at a time, so their results will vary greatly.

I also don't buy into testing the pH of water change water. As has been stated by more than one scientific mind, matching pH is virtually irrelevant due to the complexity of the elements involved. When you mix two volumes of water with different pH levels, you do not get an average, and likewise, mixing volumes of "identical" pH does not mean the result will be as well.

I work for myself, like you. I don't work for Red Sea, Central Pets, or anyone else. I just wanted to clarify that point because when I read your original post, it seemed a little misleading.

Yeah, I tried to write it to not be misleading, but I had a feeling I failed. The whole point is perception, not truth. When you are linked to the business, the perception is that you may have something to gain by a positive review of a product.

Have you noticed that both Anthony Calfo and Steven Pro work for IceCap now, btw? That was a surprising turn of events, to me anyway. Pro was working for Red Sea last year.

I don't follow those guys but it's not surprising in the least. How about Brightwell? That's more interesting to me.