Orange Spotted Filefish and Quarantine

[MondoBongo]

well, i finally did it. saw a pair of Orange Spotted Filefish up on DD yesterday and decided to pull the trigger.

for those of you who have kept these fish before, what was your QT regimen? i've successfully used Tank Transfer with prazi before, and was considering using it with them.

currently they're in a holding tank with no medication, just AmQuel and new water, and some pvc for hiding spots. eventually they will be heading in to my grow out system, then if they get through all that they will be either in the display refugium or the main display.

but i don't want to get ahead of myself.

they've been eating well so far. snapping up live white worms, frozen cyclop-eeze, pe myses, and nutramar ova with zeal, which has me cautiously optimistic. i have yet to try them on pellets, flakes, daphnia, or live baby brine, but i'm planning on introducing those over the next several days.

so, tldr;

is there any issue using prazi on these guys?
any concerns with AmQuel in the QT, either in regards to their sensitivity to it, or interactions with prazi?

i know i'm probably over thinking this, but i just can't help myself.

and since i know someone will probably ask for it, here is a pic and some video. sorry about the potato quality, it's very dim in the QT area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRLErOlGBWc

 

[m0nkie]

oh man you got them! so nice.. good luck and keep us updated! really wanted one but I have a SPS tank.

I've read so many threads on failures.. it seemed acro polyp supplement is a must for these guys. hopefully yours will be fine off of frozen stuff

 

[MondoBongo]

Well my tentative plan is to add them to my mixed reef. I've been stocking up on sps the last two years as much as possible with a special emphasis on A. millepora varieties.

I'm hoping they leave it alone and subsist off frozen alone, but as long as they're not doing excessive damage, I am going to try it if we get to that point.

I'll definitely do some updates. I've been encouraged by their condition and willingness to eat so soon after coming out of the bag, positive indicators so far. Time will tell though.

 

[Dmorty217]

I would do TTM with PP so the QT is done in 12 days instead of a prolonged QT period. With delicate fish less is more IMO

 

[MondoBongo]

Thanks for the sanity check DMorty. I think I'm just way over thinking this and questioning my process.

 

[MondoBongo]

So in addition to everything else I've tried, they also eat at least one kind of pellet.

Amazing. Hopefully this keeps up and the only thing they don't eat is coral.

 

[Dmorty217]

Sounds like your set for success. Haven't heard of many eating pellets before

 

[ThRoewer]

So in addition to everything else I've tried, they also eat at least one kind of pellet. ...

That's great.

... Hopefully this keeps up and the only thing they don't eat is coral.

I think that is asking too much, like hoping a lion will only eat vegetable and ignore the steak right next to them - not likely to happen.
At least when it comes to Acropora and similar SPS.

 

[MondoBongo]

That's great.



I think that is asking too much, like hoping a lion will only eat vegetable and ignore the steak right next to them - not likely to happen.
At least when it comes to Acropora and similar SPS.

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst as always in this hobby.

 

[firemountain]

Congratulations on these beautiful fish. My OSFF just completed the 2 nd round of Prazipro with success.

I did the TTM on them first w/o prazipro. Here's why...I wanted to get her eating a variety of foods off the bat so she didn't get used to one type. Pellets and flake included. Hence I was doing a lot of feedings, siphoning out the uneaten food, adding new salt water, multipl times a day, every day. . IMO it would have way too had to keep up the proper concentration of Prazipro in the tank. I read these fish won't eat unless they have prinsitne water conditions, so that's why fed and siphons out food constantly. I wasn't taking any chances. Ready for this....I figured that throughout the entire TTM process, I went through probably close to 150 gallons of water. This fish really pushed my limits from a dedication standpoint.

I wrote a primer and posted it with my experience ....it's really only the 1st part, of a few more to follow.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2540008&highlight=orange+spotted+filefish


In terms of Ammonia binders....I used prime with no issues. With Prazipro....just make sure to keep the tank super oxygenated. She acted a bit reclusive at first after introducing Prazipro, but then all was fine afterward.

In terms of eating food, she was shy around me. I would feed the tank, then hide behind a wall, an just observe. She initially didn't want to eat with me around. Now....she is better,

I will add more info tomorrow....I am beat right now. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Dom

 

[MondoBongo]

Excellent! Thank you so much for the write up.

I'm doing similar. They're about to get their first xfer in to the prazi treated tank in probably about 30 minutes here.

I've been feeding them very often and changing out some water from the first tank all day to try to keep it fresh.

I've already got about 50 gallons of saltwater brewed up and warmed ready to go, with another 50 gallons of RODI on deck.

 

[firemountain]

Awesome....good luck!! I also noticed that in the transfer tanks, you will find them sitting idle, pressed right up along the side of the heater...sometimes by the base and sometimes by the wiring. Since you have two fish...your fish will be more active with each other than just my one.

I also tried the Omega One micro algae pellets...which she has taken to. The .5 NLS pellets worked as well..but she would sorts pick and graze at them when they hot the floor of the tank.

Also....I picked up a combo frozen pack of 1/2 PE Mysis and 1/2 Callanus. My OSFF absolutes loved the frozen PE Callanus, probably because of its smaller size.

I soo wish I would have gotten two of them, but at that time DD only had a single one. I saw the ones on DD you bought.....beautiful pair!!

Plus side... With using my squared off colander....they have been the easiest fish I have ever had to catch and transfer.

 

[MondoBongo]

i had a small scare this morning when i got the female in to the colander and she attempted to flop out.

they seemed to settle in to the transfer quickly though, and were munching white worms and baby brine right away.

i haven't had a chance to get any of the new PE Callanus yet, but i'm about due to restock my PE Myses so i will try to track down a twin pack.

i love how these two swim. they're usually not far from each other. the way they hang nearly vertical in the water and just waft back and forth together is mesmerizing. they're every bit as interesting to watch as i had hoped. i also love the quasi-question mark shape they assume when feeding.

i know a lot people probably think i'm off my rocker for planning to introduce them to my mixed reef, but i have to be honest, i got bored. i got bored of everyone having roughly similar reef tank stock lists, and i need to try something different. there isn't much in the ocean more different than these fish.

unbagging them was the first time i've ever seen them in person, and i've been completely captivated ever since.

 

[firemountain]

I cut up a Small piece of egg crate to fit just over the colander, so once I lifted them out of the water, the eggcrate would prevent them from jumping out.

Ok...so now there are two crazy guys n the northeast introducing them into a mixed reef. My tank has a Maxima, scoly's, mushrooms, Torches, etc. I am most worried about my maxima and Scoly's.

When I get some time...I a going to build a clam cage made out of acrylic rods. Totally experimental and I know it's gonna look a bit weird, but I am ok with that. I am gonna cut and heat up a bunch of acrylic rods, and use softball as the mold. Once I get the shape I want...I will glue some cross pieces to affix. I am hoping that the OSFF cannot fit through it, but if it works as a deterrent, that will be a plus.

The way these fish move around the tank is truly captivating. Sorta like a Drone/hover craft, but only in the ocean.

 

[MondoBongo]

i hadn't even thought about my clams.

i have a variety of LPS and SPS, with only a few mushrooms still hanging around. my hope is that i've given them a large enough tank, with enough potential distractions to mitigate the damage they can do. they're two small fish, with two small mouths, who will hopefully be happy mostly on prepared food.

i figure they will be picking at some of my SPS, but my hope is that there's enough there so that they won't really be doing any serious harm.

two things that i've read about them that drive my stocking selection for corals:

1. they tend to consume the coral slime more than the actual polyps. for this i've got some bali green slimer in there. a very slippery coral, as well as a few other Acropora types that tend to get very slimy when agitated.

2. they prefer A. millepora to other types of acros. to this end i've tried to get as many different types of (what i can identify as) millepora, so that if they do need to supplement their diet, they will have the correct food source.

i was also thinking of trying to find some fake coral decoration for their stay in QT. usually i stick with the pvc pipe sections, but these guys like to hang vertical to hide, presumably in the branches of acropora colonies, so i'm thinking a couple plastic coral colonies could help ease their stress while in a fairly bare QT tank. i'll probably try to track down a couple today after work.

i was also considering doing some acryllic work to make a "puzzle box" of sorts. something that i could stick food inside, be it frozen or otherwise, that would have a magnet to hold it to the side of the tank and small openings for them and my copper band to get their long noses in to, and pick out small pieces of food.

are you concerned with them picking at your clams, or getting stuck in the clam should it decide to close?

 

[ThRoewer]

One thing I read is that they consume the Acropora slime to mask their own scent, either to cloak themselves from predators or parasites.

If that's all they are after and they are not actually eating the coral polyps for nutritional value, what do they actually eat in the wild?

 

[MondoBongo]

these fish so far are not very well studied. i've only found one citation for gut content analysis of Marshall Island specimens:

http://www.um.u-tokyo.ac.jp/publish_db/Bulletin/no25/no25007.html

O. longirostris had taken chiefly sclcractinian coral polyps along with much mucus. We observed it repeatedly picking the surfaces of living corals, mostly Acropora. Hiatt and Strasburg (1960) also found only bitten off coral polyps with no skeletal material in the two specimens (both 75 mm SL) that they examined in the Marshall Islands. In addition to these food data, Hobson (1975) noted that the protruding snout and teeth projecting from small mouth of this species are well suited to snipping off sclcractinian coral polyps surrounding calcareous armor. The filamentous algae and eggs among its gut contents probably were taken incidentally along with its major prey.

sample size of one though, so make of it what you will. there are other things i've read that would seem to contradict that:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blo...otted-filefish-have-very-selective-coral-diet

i assume the article you're referring to is the other Advanced Aquarist article about them:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/harlequin-filefish-masquerading-as-its-prey

these guys are a question mark as far as i am concerned. which is exciting and scary at the same time. maybe i will have an opportunity to observe a behavior or learn something about these fish that no one else knows. how cool would that be?

i haven't seen any comparative analysis of coral versus other foods as far as nutritional content, etc.. so i would be curious to know if prepared foods have a better nutrient density than coral. it's possible that these guys have evolved to feed on corals because corals don't move. in their natural habitat most of the things that we feed in frozen or dried form tend to be fairly fast moving or difficult to catch, and these guys are very slow, methodical fish.

perhaps given the opportunity to acquire a more nutrient dense food with similar effort they would prefer it to their typical food source. this is entirely conjecture though.

 

[ThRoewer]

It should also be understood that fish in the wild not necessarily eat what is best for them but rather what's available (= not taken by some other species).

 

[MondoBongo]

Yeah I think that's pretty much what I was getting at there. We'll see.

 

[firemountain]

i hadn't even thought about my clams.

i have a variety of LPS and SPS, with only a few mushrooms still hanging around. my hope is that i've given them a large enough tank, with enough potential distractions to mitigate the damage they can do. they're two small fish, with two small mouths, who will hopefully be happy mostly on prepared food.

i figure they will be picking at some of my SPS, but my hope is that there's enough there so that they won't really be doing any serious harm.

two things that i've read about them that drive my stocking selection for corals:

1. they tend to consume the coral slime more than the actual polyps. for this i've got some bali green slimer in there. a very slippery coral, as well as a few other Acropora types that tend to get very slimy when agitated.

2. they prefer A. millepora to other types of acros. to this end i've tried to get as many different types of (what i can identify as) millepora, so that if they do need to supplement their diet, they will have the correct food source.

i was also thinking of trying to find some fake coral decoration for their stay in QT. usually i stick with the pvc pipe sections, but these guys like to hang vertical to hide, presumably in the branches of acropora colonies, so i'm thinking a couple plastic coral colonies could help ease their stress while in a fairly bare QT tank. i'll probably try to track down a couple today after work.

i was also considering doing some acryllic work to make a "puzzle box" of sorts. something that i could stick food inside, be it frozen or otherwise, that would have a magnet to hold it to the side of the tank and small openings for them and my copper band to get their long noses in to, and pick out small pieces of food.

are you concerned with them picking at your clams, or getting stuck in the clam should it decide to close?

Getting the nose stuck in the clam is definitely more of a concern. I am not so sure how the flesh of a clam will hold up under picking, so I will see what happens. I have watched them eat....and when the see something they like.....they sorta eye it up a bit first....hover around it, and then move in for the kill. I'm hoping that if she does decide to go after it.....that she will cast a shadow first causing the clam to close.

I currently have a Garf Bonsai, deep water acro in my tank. I am hoping that those will get picked at first. I lost a deal on a A. millepora a bit back, and I know that is their go to coral. The green slimer sounds like a good plan as well. If I see her going to town on my Acro....then I will work on getting a Millepora and slimer.

Also....I read somewhere that the actual coral mucous is algae bases...so to speak. I actually read that piece of info you posted from Hobson. Interesting read.

Personally I do feel that these fish will benefit from some algae intake....that was shy I bought the Omega one veggie micro pellets....especially since it's small enough for the fishes mouth, and is algae food. I tried a piece of NORI on a clip when I had them in the TTM...but it made a mess and really polluted the tank. Now that I have my skimmer back in and running in my QT....I am gonna give the Nori another try