Orange Spotted Filefish and Quarantine

[firemountain]

Sorry I haven't been contributing to this thread lately.....been busy. Mondo Bongo....I just read all of your posts since I last replied 2 weeks ago.

Here is my update.....good and bad.

The good news is that I finally bought my OSFF up into my DT 4 days ago. Here's the crazy part.....she went into the tank, and made a B line and started picking at my Garf Bonsai. It hadn't seen any acros since I got her over 1 month ago. I guess a leopard doesn't change its spots.....so to speak. She adapted well to my tank inhabitants...and has even quieted down my O. Clown fish who has become somewhat of a tank bully. I decided to turn down the water flow a bit so not to stress her out.

She has been eating quite well for the past 2 days, everything from pellets, flake, to a variety of frozen foods. She sleeps at night wedged into the back corner of the tank where the powerhead wire runs.

The bad...as of today I have feed the tank multiple times and she hasn't eaten anything. I am definitely concerned, because these are all the foods she was readily eating when she was in quarantine. Now that she is in a tank with sand and a clean up crew...her days of picking food on the bare bottom floor are over. She still hunts...but there really isn't anything there due to a few shrimp and the water current that is probably embedding food within the rock work a bit. What I don't know if she is eating my flake and pellet food that gets dispensed multiple times a day in my auto fish feeder. I am hoping that is the case.

Ironically...I found her wedged into the branches of a small frag of my Garf Bonsai acro. Unlike yourself who has been collecting and growing out Millepora's....I did not do this. Luckily....a local reefer is has a rose Millepora for sale.....so I am going to pick that up this coming weekend.

I had done a larger water change before she went into the tank....and tomorrow I am going to do another one to see if that will stimulate her.....which I am hoping. Also....I keep som Dr. G's medicated food on hand that I like to giv my QT before they go into my DT as a preventative measure. Tomorrow I will introduce that as a first food to see if that will work.

I guess only having one OSFF as opposed to a mated pair isn't helping me either. I have spent a lot of time watching her constantly go up and down the sides of the tank looking at her reflection.

Any thoughts?

On a separate note...sorry to hear you had a stressful few days with the tanks. Definitely no fun and I can relate. I gotta tell ya.....I am in a bit of a panic mode myself.....especially since I know how uickly these fish can get skinny when they don't eat.

 

[firemountain]

so my xmas gift is having two apparently still healthy filefish.

although they are definitely turning up their noses at things that aren't white worms now, so that has me a little concerned.

they're nearing the end of tank transfer, so now i am trying to decide if they go in to my grow out system for a couple more weeks, or if i move them directly in to the main system.

i finally got my display fuge hooked up, so that is likely where they will go first. it is a 35 gallon cube that shares the sump with my main display. the more i watched them eat in QT, the more concerned i became about them trying to compete against my yellow tang, copperband butterfly, and clowns in the big tank. the cube will be home to various macros, rainford's goby, and scooter dragonet. so a much more peaceful place, and i can move over frags from the main tank if need be.

Hmm.....well I don't know which scenario will be better...fuge or main tank. Eventually they will have to go in the main tank but getting them fat first is important. I would try the fuge first. You do have some competitive fish in your main tank, so that is definitely a concern. My only competitive fish is the O. Clown. My other fish are a pink streaked wrasse, gold assessor basset, and a Helfrichi Fire Fish.

I have to say that this fish needs a lot of TLC. The amount of time, effort, and work that I have put into this fish is incredible.....not complaining by no means. This is definitely my favorite fish.

 

[MondoBongo]

Sorry I haven't been contributing to this thread lately.....been busy.

no worries! i've been busy myself, these guys keep your hands very full.

I have spent a lot of time watching her constantly go up and down the sides of the tank looking at her reflection.

so weirdly my female does the same thing. the male doesn't seem to do it as much. she does this regularly, but the speed and intensity seem to pick up when she's stressed. i think this might be like the fish equivalent of pacing when you're stressed out. i've noticed mine do it much more around water change time as the water level in the tank drops down.

Hmm.....well I don't know which scenario will be better...fuge or main tank. Eventually they will have to go in the main tank but getting them fat first is important. I would try the fuge first. You do have some competitive fish in your main tank, so that is definitely a concern. My only competitive fish is the O. Clown. My other fish are a pink streaked wrasse, gold assessor basset, and a Helfrichi Fire Fish.

I have to say that this fish needs a lot of TLC. The amount of time, effort, and work that I have put into this fish is incredible.....not complaining by no means. This is definitely my favorite fish.

my fuge isn't so much a fuge as it is a second tank. it's actually a 35 cube that sits directly next to my main system, and shares the sump with the large display. i think these guys are going to have their new home here for the time being. i had a rock tower collapse in the main tank last weekend, which left me with handfuls of frags from 2 of my acro colonies, which are now in the cube along with the algae and such that was there before.

i'm shocked at how much care these guys need. 12 hours without food and i see noticeable weight loss. i've been mixing other foods with the white worms to try to get them back eating other things. so far no luck, but it's about all i got at this point, so i'm rolling with it.

i noticed the same thing about the bare bottom tank and picking for food. they sometimes wouldn't hit things directly in the water column, but when they settled on the tank floor they would pick at them. being in a tank without a bare bottom, and with other animals, they seem much less inclined to graze off the floor of the tank.

i'm divided on the "bonded pair" label. they seem to spend less time together now that they're in the grow out system, sometimes even sparring over food. they will back up in to each other, similar to how tangs use their scalpels, or circle each other and flare fins. not at the time, but certainly much more than i saw while in TTM. perhaps they're less stressed now (or more stressed now?) and their attention has shifted. not really sure on that one.

i got a call this morning from the wife as soon as i sat down at my office. the damn snail was stuck in the overflow again, and the sump had drained. so i had to rush home and fix it. luckily i had placed a heater in the display in addition to the one in the sump, so the temperature didn't plummet this time. i tried super gluing a cover on the overflow as a stop gap until i can make a better fix, but had limited time. it's insane to me that i've had this tank running for almost 4 years with this overflow setup, and never had an issue, but as soon as i get some incredibly delicate fish in there, the snails decide it's time to hijack the drain line. they're frightening close to being turned in to golf balls.

in regards to yours not eating, the best advice i can give is try live food. mine attack white worms like you wouldn't believe. i haven't been able to get a hold of any live black worms yet, but i'm going to try those next.

my other thought was to maybe make a small tray or dish that i could attach to the tank via an old powerhead magnet, and use it to place food in. that way the CUC or other sand dwellers wouldn't be able to get to it, and it would give the file fish a chance to graze.

 

[firemountain]

no worries! i've been busy myself, these guys keep your hands very full.



so weirdly my female does the same thing. the male doesn't seem to do it as much. she does this regularly, but the speed and intensity seem to pick up when she's stressed. i think this might be like the fish equivalent of pacing when you're stressed out. i've noticed mine do it much more around water change time as the water level in the tank drops down.



my fuge isn't so much a fuge as it is a second tank. it's actually a 35 cube that sits directly next to my main system, and shares the sump with the large display. i think these guys are going to have their new home here for the time being. i had a rock tower collapse in the main tank last weekend, which left me with handfuls of frags from 2 of my acro colonies, which are now in the cube along with the algae and such that was there before.

i'm shocked at how much care these guys need. 12 hours without food and i see noticeable weight loss. i've been mixing other foods with the white worms to try to get them back eating other things. so far no luck, but it's about all i got at this point, so i'm rolling with it.

i noticed the same thing about the bare bottom tank and picking for food. they sometimes wouldn't hit things directly in the water column, but when they settled on the tank floor they would pick at them. being in a tank without a bare bottom, and with other animals, they seem much less inclined to graze off the floor of the tank.

i'm divided on the "bonded pair" label. they seem to spend less time together now that they're in the grow out system, sometimes even sparring over food. they will back up in to each other, similar to how tangs use their scalpels, or circle each other and flare fins. not at the time, but certainly much more than i saw while in TTM. perhaps they're less stressed now (or more stressed now?) and their attention has shifted. not really sure on that one.

i got a call this morning from the wife as soon as i sat down at my office. the damn snail was stuck in the overflow again, and the sump had drained. so i had to rush home and fix it. luckily i had placed a heater in the display in addition to the one in the sump, so the temperature didn't plummet this time. i tried super gluing a cover on the overflow as a stop gap until i can make a better fix, but had limited time. it's insane to me that i've had this tank running for almost 4 years with this overflow setup, and never had an issue, but as soon as i get some incredibly delicate fish in there, the snails decide it's time to hijack the drain line. they're frightening close to being turned in to golf balls.

in regards to yours not eating, the best advice i can give is try live food. mine attack white worms like you wouldn't believe. i haven't been able to get a hold of any live black worms yet, but i'm going to try those next.

my other thought was to maybe make a small tray or dish that i could attach to the tank via an old powerhead magnet, and use it to place food in. that way the CUC or other sand dwellers wouldn't be able to get to it, and it would give the file fish a chance to graze.

Thanks for the advice. I will try and run out today and get some live black worms....hopefully!! The nice thing about the white worms is that they live longer in the salt water, whereas the black worms only stay alive for like 5 seconds.

I am gonna try 2 other frozen foods that I haven't used yet in the DT yet mainly because they are the Dr. G's premeditated frozen foods. The OSFF really liked it while in QT, so I am hoping that will work.

I have water heating right now...so maybe a water change will help. Unfortunately I have officially gone into panic mode. Here is a shot I just took. This is soo uncharacteristic of her being wedged in between the acro frags while the lights are on. I think she is trying to conserve energy and is weak. She has definitely lost weight within the past 24 hours.

 

[LargeAngels]

My only problem is that I have two males so pretty soon they will have to separated. They both hang out together and never really leave each other.

Mine only feed from the water column. Never seen them even attempt to go to rocks or the bottom in search of food.

 

[MondoBongo]

these guys are probably the most dynamic fish i've seen. just when i think i get a handle on their behavior, they seem to switch it up on me and do something totally different. ha.

so far i've seen them eat pellets from the surface, pick at food on the bottom, and feed in the water column.

mine like the white worms so much they will actually stick their noses out of the water to try to get them once they realize i'm feeding. i'll see if i can get it on video at some point, i can say for sure that i did not expect to see that.

 

[firemountain]

Definitely the most dynamic behavior I have seen yet from a fish.

Well...I was able to get live black worms from my LFS...no response. Add Cyclopeeze...nothing. I even added a SPS/LPS AZOX macro diet food that was broadcast throughout the tank....and still nothing. The fish is now wedged between the front glass an an SPS coral frag.

I have decided to reboot my situation. I just did a 100% water change in my QT. I am waiting for the water to come up to temp. and then I am going to move her back into QT.

Now the fun part is going to try and catch her in my DT. With work commitments, I am hoping I can do this tonight.

 

[firemountain]

Just a quick update.....when I pulled her from th DT into a holding container, she was VERY weak and swimming like she was drunk. I floated the container for 15 minutes for temperature, added some QT tank water for any change in ph, and threw her in knowing my QT and DT are matched for SG. I also ran an air stone to saturate the QT tank with O2.

This is one of those times that I am happy I keep a permanently setup quarantine tank, with plenty of aged salt water on hand at all times.

She swam around a bit looking somewhat refreshed, and then wedged herself behind my HOB skimmer. Her breathing was normal but she was stressed. After a few hours she relocated herself down toward the bottom of the tank behind my power head bracket. I fed the tank but nothing sofar.

At this point I decided to kill the tank lights, turn off the powerhead in the tank and let her be, since I had to go to work the graveyard shift. If she lasts the night, I think I may have a fighting chance. I just can't believe the turn of events that took place within the past 48 hours. To put the amount of time I have into this fish to see deteriorate so fast is just heart breaking.

Since there is pe mysis and micro pellet food on the tank floor, I am hoping she will eat in the AM to get her energy back.

Luckily I spent a lot of time studying this fish and knew her behavior. After seeing some uncharacteristic behavior, I knew I had to take action quick. While I know moving her back into QT would be stressful, I think it was the right move.

Maybe the competition for food was too overwhelming, and that she was not able to peck at food at her own pace, like she did in quarantine. If she lasts, I think I will setup a small cube tank and keep her by herself for a while.

 

[MondoBongo]

Good luck! I hope she turns around.

 

[firemountain]

Good luck! I hope she turns around.

Thank you! So far she is still alive and hanging in there. She is breathing normally but hasn't moved from the same location since last night. I fed the tank heavily but no feeding response. While I am hopeful, I don't know how things will turn out. Tomorrow I am picking up a small tennis ball sized Acro Millepora from a local reefer tomorrow. I am hoping that maybe if she sees the Acro in the tank, she will feed from their natural food supply.

 

[firemountain]

For those following this thread...my OSFF had expired overnight

It's a tough loss when you put in a huge effort and that you have a healthy fish that is readily eating in quarantine.

Personally I think that my only downfall was that I didn't have any A. millepora readily available. My DT did have some deep water Acros. Once she was moved out of quarantine and saw them in the DT, she did a huge 360 and went towards its natural food source exclusively.

In quarantine....she only ate frozen and prepared foods....so she didn't know any better. That was the toughest part was to break her into eating a food source that she is not readily accustomed, which I was successful in doing.

I guess I had a false hope knowing that I had some deep water acros as my safety net in my DT. Maybe my DT should have been Acro free from the beginning, or have an abundance that would be enough to sustain them.

I know Mondo Bongo was collecting and growing out A. Millepora for his DT. That is what I should have done in hindsight.

For those reading this thread...my best advice is to REALLY do your due diligence homework, read Matt Peterson's article in Coral Magazine, and talk to others here on RC who have experience with this fish. While I was successful in the short term, my long term effort was not.

Would I buy this fish again....absolutely 100%. These fish don't readily come available on LA/DD, so when I saw one available after a few months of waiting I decided to take the plunge.

 

[MondoBongo]

well, the day has come. i finally moved everyone in to the big pool. this cube has been set up for a few weeks now, tied to the sump on my main system. it's functionally intended to be a display refugium, but i've been tossing chunks of acropora in there for the last few weeks that i didn't have room for on my frag rack, and the orange spotted filefish went straight for it. they have been snacking on the three different types since they hit the water.

i also found out today that they will happily eat live black worms, and will pick at frozen blood worms. so that's good news. i've gotten some other types of frozen food as well that i'll be trying them on. i'm actually quite relieved that they're snacking on the acros. that's one more thing that they will eat for me, and so far the three types of acro that are in there grow like weeds in my system. so that's good news.

 

[MondoBongo]

here are two quick videos of them chowing down:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phr0WALzd-s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP1Vo_JFygQ

i'm pretty geeked that these guys are finally home. i also moved some of their tank mates from the grow out stem, including my little ocellated dragonet (Synchiropus ocellatus) and court jester's goby (Koumansetta rainfordi).

hopefully with the availability of acropora to graze on, they will be easier to maintain.

 

[MondoBongo]

So when I came home today these guys looked remarkably less skinny than they would have in the grow out system. No doubt because they have a whole mess of acropora to graze on all day. Typically they would appear very skinny after 12 - 18 hours of no food.

I feed right before lights out at night, but if I work I leave before the lights come on and everyone is awake and don't get back until around 5:30pm. Which usually means about 14ish hours in between their last meal and their first meal. Obviously today, they've already been munching, which is great news!

They happily gobbled some white worms, but weren't interested in the frozen blood worms or the Myses. That's OK. As long as I can feed them worms and coral, we can work on integrating other foods.

So far the corals I have in there with them don't look damaged. There is no polyp extension, but the flesh doesn't actually appear to be damaged as of yet. We'll see if that holds up.

 

[MondoBongo]

One observation for the night. Food sizing might be an issues.

Too small and they seem to ignore it, same goes for too large. I got some hikari mysis the other day which are much smaller than their Piscene Energetics cousins. The filefish haven't been interested in PE Myses for a while but happily gobbled up a few hikari.

 

[Giovanni]

Great Job!

 

[LargeAngels]

I noticed the same about food size. They will now search out and attack the food. But as soon as they taken the bite they back up a body length or so. Flake seems to be the biggest hit.

 

[firemountain]

Glad to hear the pair is doing well. I truly believe these guys need the acros as their safety net, irregardless of whether or not they eat everything else in QT.

I just got a nice piece A. Millepora, so I am going to grow them and collect more of them before I give this fish a second attempt. I was amazed how I my fish made a b line as soon as she hit my DT whereas she never saw them for like 1.5 months.

My OSFF took to frozen PE Callanus in my DT....she liked the size of it. Keep us posted, as I will be following along!! Good luck.

 

[MondoBongo]

thanks!

i am going to try the callanus and a few other things today when i get home. they still need a couple feedings a day, but it doesn't seem to be as many. before i was struggling to keep weight on them with any less than 4 feedings, usually about two hours apart.

i emptied both of my frag racks in to their cube, with plans on getting some more. i will likely take a drive to some various reef shops in the area to see if i can find anything else that looks appetizing for them. the larger the colony, the better.

the male is less interested in the prepared food. the female is doing a better job reliably eating the hikari mysis. so we'll see what else these two like or don't like. they still both love white worms and black worms. i'm just glad they're eating a few things now. it will give me some safety buffer to figure out a plan b if my food cultures crash or i'm unable to get an order in for whatever reason.

i would still like to put them in the main tank with all the corals, but i really don't think they would stand a chance there for getting supplemental food. the tang, clowns, and copperband pretty much destroy anything that hits the water. so i guess for now i'll just keep packing the cube with as much acropora as i can.

 

[firemountain]

thanks!

i am going to try the callanus and a few other things today when i get home. they still need a couple feedings a day, but it doesn't seem to be as many. before i was struggling to keep weight on them with any less than 4 feedings, usually about two hours apart.

i emptied both of my frag racks in to their cube, with plans on getting some more. i will likely take a drive to some various reef shops in the area to see if i can find anything else that looks appetizing for them. the larger the colony, the better.

the male is less interested in the prepared food. the female is doing a better job reliably eating the hikari mysis. so we'll see what else these two like or don't like. they still both love white worms and black worms. i'm just glad they're eating a few things now. it will give me some safety buffer to figure out a plan b if my food cultures crash or i'm unable to get an order in for whatever reason.

i would still like to put them in the main tank with all the corals, but i really don't think they would stand a chance there for getting supplemental food. the tang, clowns, and copperband pretty much destroy anything that hits the water. so i guess for now i'll just keep packing the cube with as much acropora as i can.

That sounds like a good plan. Yeah..the tangs and copperband would definitely eat all the food that hits the water before the OSFF would have a chance. I also noticed that when I ran my auto fish feeder with flake it helped, the food stays on the top of the water, and my other fish were more interested in pulling food from the water column when given the choice.

The tough part is with SPS you need higher water flow. That means that the OSFF is working a lot harder throughout the day in current just to move around. Hence....multiple feedings throughout the day becomes a must to keep their energy level up. I had actually turned my flow way down in the beginning, to help the fish adapt.