ORP and Ozone Problems

[d2mini]

This is actually a three-part question that I could use some guidance on.

1) My ORP without ozone doesn't get above 300 mV. It's usually somewhere around 250-280 mV. Is this ok?

2) I have a Poseidon 200 running on my 350g system. I usually run it pretty low, with the dial set to around 2-3 out of 5. I've run it 24/7 with my controller controlling it and cutting it off at 400 mV, and I've also run it for just a couple hours in the morning after lights on. Either way, I have having a problem where I am melting the "ozone safe" t-fitting that attaches the ozone generator to my life reef skimmer. I also tried a brass t-fitting and that got all clogged with green gook and rusted straight through.

3) My main reason for running the ozone (other than getting the orp levels up to where "they" say they should be, is clearer water (a byproduct of breaking down the organics). Do you think I might be better served by switching to a UV light, which would give me clearer water along with some low grade parasite prevention?

Thoughts appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[disc1]

I don't know about the ozone question, but I do know that the green gunk in that brass fitting was copper corrosion and that was very very bad for your tank. No more brass in contact with your water unless you want to poison everything with copper.

 

[wolfblue]

250-280 mV is just fine, ORP really does not need to be any particular number. IMO 230-450 is good. Most times you wont approach 400 without ozone. And clearer water will last quite a while. You might try running it up to 400 for a few turn overs every week or two.

Plus, you could be making nitric acid if your brass went green gunk quickly. Not using dry air, or failed dryer. And like he said, no brass on a ozone line even if its supposed to not get wet. I would not even use stainless on the relatively small volume of a home aquarium.

 

[d2mini]

Well i've pulled it off completely for now because i don't want to keep replacing t-fittings.

So if my orp is fine as-is, maybe i should just ditch the ozone equipment and go UV instead.
I don't want to deal with a separate reactor for the ozone.

 

[AcroporAddict]

I run a Poseidon at setting 2 into my alpha vertex 300 without an air dryer, strictly for water clarity like you do. Without an air dryer you are not dosing much o3 into the water. I have run mine 24/7 for over 18 months and have never monitored orp in this tank. I also have an Emperor Aquatics 150 watt Smart HO UV on the system. I'd keep using it like you are and just stock up on plastic t fittings. A uv is a much more benign piece of equipment to have in the tank vs ozone, much less a potential threat to the fish and corals. Serious ozone use requires more work than I am willing to do with an air dryer, media change out to the dryer, regular orp probe calibration, o3 reactors, etc.

I use my Poseidon because I have it. If it ever stops working, I will not replace it.

A quality UV is not cheap, just make sure you are getting the proper exposure levels to kill protozoan type bugs like marine ich, etc, unless you just want to run it for water clarity like the ozone. I have six tangs in my 465, so I have a proper flow rate through my UV for that purpose. I know UVs don't cure ich, but I haven't had any illness in this tank since setup. Hopefully, I am keeping any circulating bugs at low levels with the UV.

Not much maintenance with UVs either. Outside of changing the bulb every 13 months or so on my brand, I descale the quartz tube every six months or so.

 

[billsreef]

I expect wolfblue nailed it in regards to the cause of those fittings failing.

As for UV, the only clarifying effect it has is for clearing water of things like plankton. While it can break down some organics, that effect is very limited...to the point UV for that us isn't really practical. IMO I'd skip the UV, even if I wasn't using ozone.

 

[d2mini]

I run a Poseidon at setting 2 into my alpha vertex 300 without an air dryer, strictly for water clarity like you do. Without an air dryer you are not dosing much o3 into the water. I have run mine 24/7 for over 18 months and have never monitored orp in this tank. I also have an Emperor Aquatics 150 watt Smart HO UV on the system. I'd keep using it like you are and just stock up on plastic t fittings. A uv is a much more benign piece of equipment to have in the tank vs ozone, much less a potential threat to the fish and corals. Serious ozone use requires more work than I am willing to do with an air dryer, media change out to the dryer, regular orp probe calibration, o3 reactors, etc.

I use my Poseidon because I have it. If it ever stops working, I will not replace it.

A quality UV is not cheap, just make sure you are getting the proper exposure levels to kill protozoan type bugs like marine ich, etc, unless you just want to run it for water clarity like the ozone. I have six tangs in my 465, so I have a proper flow rate through my UV for that purpose. I know UVs don't cure ich, but I haven't had any illness in this tank since setup. Hopefully, I am keeping any circulating bugs at low levels with the UV.

Not much maintenance with UVs either. Outside of changing the bulb every 13 months or so on my brand, I descale the quartz tube every six months or so.

Are you having problems with your "ozone safe" plastic fittings?
I do run the air dryer. I wasn't originally, but after just a few months I had to have the cell replaced by Ozotech. I had a thread in here late last year. Since I got it back i hooked up the air dryer and have to dry the beads every week or two. And the ORP probe also has to be cleaned with a toothbrush every week or it starts reading high.

If I ever do get a UV, it would be the Emperor Aquatics brand.

 

[AcroporAddict]

Are you having problems with your "ozone safe" plastic fittings?
I do run the air dryer. I wasn't originally, but after just a few months I had to have the cell replaced by Ozotech. I had a thread in here late last year. Since I got it back i hooked up the air dryer and have to dry the beads every week or two. And the ORP probe also has to be cleaned with a toothbrush every week or it starts reading high.

If I ever do get a UV, it would be the Emperor Aquatics brand.

The only issues I ran into was after a year or so the tubing (like red RO tubing) that runs between the nipple on the O3 port and the Red Dragon 1500 pump got very brittle. I just replaced it with a piece of vinyl tubing and check it once in a while. No other fittings for me as it is a straight shot from the Poseidon to the O3 nipple on the skimmer. Of course, nowhere near the O3 levels going into my tank without the dryer.

Is it your Lifereef skimmer O3 parts that are deteriorating?

Like billsreef said, the O3 will mainly oxidize organics, which the UV will not do, but the UV does a good job with algae blooms in the water if you have them. I use 100 micron filter socks in my system, and I am punctual about rinsing them out, so I get pretty good mechanical filtration of organics that way.

 

[d2mini]

The only part i'm having problems with is the black plastic t-fitting where the ozone tubing connects to the venturi tubing. I've spoken to Jeff a couple times about it and I seem to be the only one (that he knows of) having a problem with them.

As far as algae blooms, my glass does gets the green dusty stuff, needing to be cleaned every other day. Or I have glass walls full of fish lip prints and snail trails. lol

 

[tmz]

FWIW, I have a complete large ozone setup (generator, reactor ,orp controller etc) and several idle uv units. I only use the ORP monitor . I choose not to use ozone or uvs for a number of reasons. I do not routinely use mechanical filtration,socks, etc, either. The tanks are disease free thanks to quarantine and preventative treatment for new specimens; the water is very clear/gac and skimming seems to handle that nicely; and., ORP usually hangs around 310 to 320Mv at a pH of 8.2. Sometimes , it drops as low as 280 or peaks to 400mV.

Those considering ozone can benefit from these articles by Randy,the first is on ORP, the next 3 are on ozone:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/rhf/feature/index.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php

 

[billsreef]

As far as algae blooms, my glass does gets the green dusty stuff, needing to be cleaned every other day. Or I have glass walls full of fish lip prints and snail trails. lol

The stuff growing on the glass is not in the water column, so UV won't effect it

 

[d2mini]

FWIW, I have a complete large ozone setup (generator, reactor ,orp controller etc) and several idle uv units. I only use the ORP monitor . I choose not to use ozone or uvs for a number of reasons. I do not routinely use mechanical filtration,socks, etc, either. The tanks are disease free thanks to quarantine and preventative treatment for new specimens; the water is very clear/gac and skimming seems to handle that nicely; and., ORP usually hangs around 310 to 320Mv at a pH of 8.2. Sometimes , it drops as low as 280 or peaks to 400mV.

Those considering ozone can benefit from these articles by Randy,the first is on ORP, the next 3 are on ozone:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/rhf/feature/index.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php

Ya, those are some great articles. I read through those when initially researching ozone and uv. I almost never use socks, either. And no longer run GFO. Just the skimmer and GAC, which I think I need to change more because when I do, i see an immediate clarity of the water. How often do you change yours?

The stuff growing on the glass is not in the water column, so UV won't effect it

I did seem to notice a pretty drastic drop when running the ozone a little higher (around 420-450 mv) and 24/7 (on and off with the probe/controller).

 

[AcroporAddict]

FWIW, I have a complete large ozone setup (generator, reactor ,orp controller etc) and several idle uv units. I only use the ORP monitor . I choose not to use ozone or uvs for a number of reasons. I do not routinely use mechanical filtration,socks, etc, either. The tanks are disease free thanks to quarantine and preventative treatment for new specimens; the water is very clear/gac and skimming seems to handle that nicely; and., ORP usually hangs around 310 to 320Mv at a pH of 8.2. Sometimes , it drops as low as 280 or peaks to 400mV.

Those considering ozone can benefit from these articles by Randy,the first is on ORP, the next 3 are on ozone:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/rhf/feature/index.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php

I like those articles by Randy as well.

One nice thing about this hobby is there are many different ways to achieve a beautiful reef tank. I just stopped regularly using GFO in my 465 a couple weeks ago.

 

[billsreef]

The stuff growing on the glass is not in the water column, so UV won't effect it

I did seem to notice a pretty drastic drop when running the ozone a little higher (around 420-450 mv) and 24/7 (on and off with the probe/controller).

The effect had to do with the entire aquarium being effected by the higher ORP and the general water quality

 

[drtango]

My black T fitting from Jeff melted as well. Kynar fittings, available from bulk reef, won't melt. Black is probably polypropylene which has a limited lifespan under ozone attack.

 

[AcroporAddict]

The effect had to do with the entire aquarium being effected by the higher ORP and the general water quality

Bill,
Does your post mean the higher orp is oxidizing more organics in the tank, and as such there is less for algae to consume that would otherwise grow and multiply on the glass? Thanks.

I have never felt I had a great grasp on understanding all the facets of what ORP levels in a tank mean, but have thought that the higher the average ORP in a reef tank, the less dissolved organics there would be.
Dave

 

[d2mini]

My black T fitting from Jeff melted as well. Kynar fittings, available from bulk reef, won't melt. Black is probably polypropylene which has a limited lifespan under ozone attack.

THANK YOU, SIR! :beer:

 

[AcroporAddict]

THANK YOU, SIR! :beer:

Hehe.......Dennis gets to keep his ozone on!

 

[billsreef]

Bill,
Does your post mean the higher orp is oxidizing more organics in the tank, and as such there is less for algae to consume that would otherwise grow and multiply on the glass? Thanks.

I have never felt I had a great grasp on understanding all the facets of what ORP levels in a tank mean, but have thought that the higher the average ORP in a reef tank, the less dissolved organics there would be.
Dave

With the higher ORP in a system utilizing ozone, it's likely more organics are oxidized. Also (and likely more of an effect) at the higher ORP, some organisms just don't do as well, especially the single cell stuff.

 

[robertgoldberg]

What is Ozone? anyone explain me plz .....

www.duilegalhelp.co/