Oxygen & Acclimation/Life or Death Sentence?

[Tangalong]

I recently purchased a Lysmata amboinensis and was fortunate to get her directly in her shipping bag. Took her home and acclimated her 1 1/2 hours drip method...she is doing great and it has been 5 days. I put an airstone in her bag after partial mixing of bag/new water which was kept heated and aerated.

There was another in the shipment that was huge...had to have her. Brought her home and noticed she was belly-up in bag...went ahead and did acclimation...she didn't make it.

Exchanged for remaining shrimp from same shipment . She was missing a few pieces of antennae...but still looked ok..brought her home and acclimated her...she died after 2 hours in the tank.

I have read conflicting writings on using oxygen/air stone in the process due to possible raising of PH and causing death. I have always used an air-stone during acclimation after some water mixing. Now I don't know if I should.

Was there a difference in the oxygen in the shipping bag versus the oxygen in the LFS bags? This has baffled me and really would like to have an answer so I know exactly what I should do with acclimating these shrimp.

Can anyone shed light on this? Is there anyone that works at the wholesalers that knows if something is done differently than at the LFS when bagging?

Incidently...I have never lost a fish before during acclimation and this distresses me. Your input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Sk8r]

We've been discussing acclimation problems lately. Here's the text of a post I made in another forum.
"changing recommended acclimation procedures: a new way
1. Fish can die from ammonia built up in transport bags. The moment the bag is opened, chemical changes cause problems that can be fatal or damaging in a long drip acclimation.

Here is a discussion in the Advanced Forum, for those of you interested. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...hreadid=1573583

Here is the suggestion.
1. have a refractometer. This instrument, while an investment, will last forever and uses no batteries, and does not, if carefully maintained, make mistakes. The one caution is to be sure to clear the collection bulb by squeezing it after each use.
2. ask your lfs or fish online source what their salinity is.
3. prepare your quarantine tank (bare glass, simple floss and carbon filter, heater, and a piece of pvc pipe to hide in) and set it to that exact salinity, maintaining it with topoffs.
4. when you receive your fish, test its water, and re-test your quarantine water, and be sure you are matched within .001. Once you have used a brief (15 min) drip (if necessary) to get that close, go ahead and put your fish in. Temperature equalization is not that important, if your water is warmer than the bag.
5. discard store water and test your qt water daily or 2x daily for: salinity, ammonia, nitrate, and keep that filter clean.
6. maintain this for four weeks ideally. At least 2. If there is more than a .001 difference from your display tank, adjust the salinity over a matter of days by using saline or non-saline topoff.

Do this, and the consensus is you will have a good result. You may read the thread to get information and recommendations on invert species."
Ie, I'm no longer doing drip acclimation if it's possible to avoid it.

 

[Tangalong]

Sk8r..I read that...totally agree with you...reason for long acclimation is due to the fish being a Lysmata and the LFS's SPG is 1.020 and mine is 1.026. I definitely do the quicker add a little, remove a little, water with regular fish.

 

[Tangalong]

Do you think the LFS's water had more ammonia in it that the water in her shipping bag I know they use Quality and have never had the first problem with fish from them. Just trying to find an answer as am having more ordered and want to successfully acclimate them.

 

[Sk8r]

Collection methods? cyanide?
I'd speak with the lfs and discuss the params, see if there could have been a delay, some difference, etc. Make sure there were no variables---even dropping a fish isn't unknown, as we both know.
I'd hope the lfs had cleaner water than the bag! but things happen---you'd have to test it close on the time shipped to know. If you could manage an intermediate tank with clean 1.020 water to receive the fish into, that would help, but I've also had strange accidents like a fish that arrived in shipment that could not go to the bottom of the tank: the poor thing had gotten a bubble during shipment, and was pretty well doomed. Never had it happen before or since.

 

[tmz]

The shipping water's ph usuallly drops after the long period of confinement in the bag due to CO2 buildup from respiration. Bags stuffed with oxygen may offset this to some degreee fro a limited period of time. Ammonia builds up from waste products from the organisms but due to the lowered ph it takes a less toxic form,ammonium. When the bag water is exposed to air the CO2 blows off as it equilibriates with the surrounding air and the ph rises. When the ph rises the ammonium turns to more toxic ammonia. So aerating shipping water or any long term bag water would accelerate th ph spike and ammonia toxicity. It is important to get the specimen out of the bag water as soon as you can for shipped items particularly those that are delayed or trans shipped.

For fish it doesn't matter very much if your qt tank salinity is lower than the bag water. Invertebrates,however, including your lystmata, can't osmoregulate and need relatively constant slainity.

BTW if your lfs is using 1.020 water for shrimp it may
harm them depending on the waters they came from. Most need sg in a more natural 1.024 1.027 range and can do well even higher.

 

[Tangalong]

The 2 that died had been in LFS system for 24 hours. Don't suppliers limit feeding a day prior to shipping to help prevent ammonia to some degree? At least that's what I have read.

I am going to try to get one in the shipping bag again..should I just pour into acclimation bucket immediately upon arriving home? Or float to get temp the same first. Also....what are opinions of using Methylene blue for oxygen? I have never used it with an invert. Will do research on this also. QT is 10 gallon and it is worst for keeping even params.

BYW..seems all the LFS around here keep their salinity at 1.020. Cheaper and less problems they say. Not much I can do about that.

 

[Tangalong]

Thanks for explaining about the build-up of ammonia in the shipping bag...didn't understand before why.

 

[Tangalong]

I have an empty 5 gal here in the house...Could I have it prepared with aged SW and add top-off to arrive at bag salinity; add Methylene Blue and ph adjust then add Lysmata from bag? I still will have to open the bag to get salinity/ph readings....will that work? Gads, getting more confused.

 

[tmz]

You can float the unopened bag for 15 to 20 minutes to get the temperature closer, but temperature is not a big deal in my opinion.If you know the bag water sg I would match it .Unlike fish where you can go with nice safe low salinity of say 1.015 with the shrimp you need to go to around 1.024 . If I didn't know the sg of the bagwater , I would just put it in 1.024 without letting it linger in the bag very long. I would not worry about providing oxygen in lthe bag since it will spike the bag water ph and ammonia toxicity.

 

[Tangalong]

Whew!! Didn't think I'd ever find my thread...wanted to thank you two sk8r and tmz (Tom) for your help. I put heated aged SW in the 5 gallon and after floating the Lysmata for 20 minutes, slipped her in and started drip acclimation. I didn't take but an hour because of my good fortune!! I had e-mailed Quality Marine early this AM explaining the situation and asked them the SPG and PH of the shipping water. They replied right away. Seems their water is 1.025 and PH of 8.1. Close enough !!! She is doing great. Just a baby too...about 1 inch is all. The sad thing is that the LFS just floats them then dumps them in. No wonder the other two didn't survive...dumping from 1.025 to 1.020 is pretty drastic. I told him but he didn't seem bothered about it. By the way, I saved the shipping water and tested it... sure enough it was 1.025 and 8.1. I am pleased with Quality and thanked them,.

I just wanted to thank you two as I was a little bit of a wreck with another one coming today and not sure what to do. Thanks so much.

 

[tmz]

You are welcome.

Usually, in my experience shippers do ship invertebrates in higher sg than they do fish because of the isotonic (no osmoregulation ability)nature of the invertebrates. My firend keeps the sg for new invertebrates higher than for new fish in his lfs as well.

Good Luck.

 

[Tangalong]

Baby Lysmata still doing great !!!Trying to clean my Clarkii at this early in his young life. The other one shipped had molted in his bag...sad, but I'll bet he doesn't make it.

Your friend is wise...too bad other LFS don't think of anything but the $$$$$. Took me years to realize the business was just that...a business.

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Curly