Par 38 LED spotlights

I have a quick question. I am about to turn my fuge into a frag tank. The fuge is part of my sump, as seen in this picture. It is the part on the right hand side that measures 14w x 16w x 12t.

DSC00773.jpg



I do not use it as a fuge anymore, because my tank does not have enough nutrients to feed the macros. I am quickly running out of room in my display, but it will be a little longer before I set up my new 180. I am in a bind for some space to put frags.

My question is this. What is a good LED spotlight that I can use, but will not cost a fortune. I am not really concerned about the color temp. I would rather something that is 10,000k, but if I can get a cheap 6500k then I will be willing to try that out.

I want to go with a Par 38 LED because I already have a edison/screw based light over the fuge now. Amazon.com has a pile of Par 38 Led bulbs, but I am looking for some experience with lighting for corals.

Can someone please take into account the small size of the area I am going to light, and factor into it, that I will be growing out SPS frags with it. Then recommend a wattage of bulb, or suggest a bulb that might fit my needs.

Is this anything like what I want?
http://www.amazon.com/PAR38-White-L...3?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1276189119&sr=1-3

Thanks,
Nathan
 
i believe PAR38's can be used as standalone lighting with no issue's the key here is to find the right blend of LED's wether it be warm white, Cool white, Neutral white, Royal blue, cool blue, or a mixture of all 5 maybe nesscessary to achieve 100% results but from what i've seen on my own setup PAR38's by themselves can grow and keep coral just fine

The only issue i see is with color and color doesen't nesscessarily mean that a coral isn't healthy or thriving, it's only for personal appearance and enjoyment that corals have vibrant colors

I'm getting 4 custom PAR38's made right now with 1 neutral white led and 4 cool blue leds per lamp, IMO these will help to improve the coral color but it will take some time with these over my tank and corals to gauge this, i'm trying my hardest to get to the bottom of coral color's and LED's role with them

So if the custom lights i'm having built solve the issue of color, than i think the T5 and MH fans will be switching over sooner than later

I've always been a fan of T5 and MH and from what i've seen LED's can do the same exact thing as those setups but for a lot less heat and energy consumption, upfront cost is the only difference between the two

You and I started using these about the same time. How are your corals doing? Mine are doing fine from what I can tell but the SPS are only small frags so my tank is probably not a real good indicator. My softies and LPS are doing fine, but they would anyway. Give us a report. Did you get your blue LED's yet?
 
Mine should arrive tomorrow, I believe ^_^ I've got 6 of the Ecoxotic 12k bulbs coming, as well as 3 of the 403nm UV Stunner Strips. I wanted to err on the side of NOT being too blue, as I do not want anything near a 20k look and can always add a 453nm Blue Stunner down the road if I need to add blend some more blue in.

I have decided to go the track-lighting route, as I don't think there are any other truly viable options for larger aquariums (or anything but a nano?). For those of you running tracks, have you got them installed as usual track lights, with the wiring going through your ceiling/in the wall and connected to a switch plate? Or has anyone else wired from the track to a powercord?

FTS aside, I would really like to see some better pictures focusing on the structure and wiring/cords. I have asked 2 local lighting shops about adapting from the tracks directly to a powercord, so that it may be plugged into an outlet, and neither had a clue what I was talking about, or had anything to sell me along those lines. When searching through online catalogs for lighting accessories, I find nothing in the track-lighting section to do this either, so I'm just going to rely on a friend who'll hopefully have the skills to do it for me @_@
 
There is an adapter that goes into the end of the track. This is where the wiring attaches and it makes no difference whether you wire directly to the house wiring or simply add a plug. I bought a couple of cheap extension cords, cut off the receptacle end and plugged the lights into my RKL.
 
don't know why you need 12 bulbs still

Check out the PAR plots here:
https://www.nanotuners.com/pages.php?pID=4

On a 24" deep tank, you should be looking at the 30" plots. You could make yourself feel a *LITTLE* better by judging from the 20" plots, but those are measurements from the sensor to the BOTTOM of the lamp. Most of you I imagine, place these bulbs 4" or more from the surface. A 20" plot will then mean you are measuring from 16" of depth. That's 8" above the bottom of a 24" tall tank.

Those plots with 40 degree optics show nearly a zero'd out PAR at 7.5" in X/Y. So at the VERY least, you'd need a bulb every 7.5"x7.5". On a tank that's 72" by 24", 12 bulbs is a VERY conservative estimate especially if we're talking 40 degree optics.
 

Thanks! That's exactly what I was seeking.

...at the VERY least, you'd need a bulb every 7.5"x7.5". On a tank that's 72" by 24", 12 bulbs is a VERY conservative estimate.

I still cannot believe that people are even entertaining the idea of illuminating the entire aquarium with these
facepalm.gif
It's clear that if you wanted to have evenly spread light across the entire aquarium dimensions, you should be looking at alternative means, like the actual full-length fixtures. It just doesn't make sense to have a cluttered array of these (requiring fans to make sure the air is moving around them, due to the close proximity & density of units over the given space) rather than going the route of multiple pendant LED clusters or a single tank-length fixture (even if it's DIY!).

The point of these lights is to emulate the Japanese style of spotlighting a reef tank, which I don't know about you - but I've never seen one that consists of evenly placed units over the aquarium all facing straight down, and with all even wattage/spreads. If you aren't looking to spotlight and highlight specific spots of your aquarium, or creatively light the aquarium based upon your aquascape & coral placement, then the PAR38's are really the poorer option for you.

Am I the only one that thinks this? I originally planned to use 4-5 of them over my tank, but ordered the 6 for a pricebreak. My tank has a 36x36 footprint, but the main showcase is the fish, and I'll only have SOME corals in it. I don't doubt that I'll be able to keep pretty much all corals I'm interested in (which isn't a whole lot) with this lighting, even if I decide to only run 4 of the fixtures, but I'll be playing it safe and placing my corals where I think they'll do best - based on my lighting angles. But like I said, no SPS/clams everywhere for me.
 
well guys my 4 custom bulbs are on there way i should have them this comming tuesday, i'll have an update and new pics up after i get them over the tank

stay tunned, should be interesting, 4bulbs with 4-cool blue and 1-neutral white leds per bulb with 60 optics to come
 
Thanks! That's exactly what I was seeking.



I still cannot believe that people are even entertaining the idea of illuminating the entire aquarium with these
facepalm.gif
It's clear that if you wanted to have evenly spread light across the entire aquarium dimensions, you should be looking at alternative means, like the actual full-length fixtures. It just doesn't make sense to have a cluttered array of these (requiring fans to make sure the air is moving around them, due to the close proximity & density of units over the given space) rather than going the route of multiple pendant LED clusters or a single tank-length fixture (even if it's DIY!).

The point of these lights is to emulate the Japanese style of spotlighting a reef tank, which I don't know about you - but I've never seen one that consists of evenly placed units over the aquarium all facing straight down, and with all even wattage/spreads. If you aren't looking to spotlight and highlight specific spots of your aquarium, or creatively light the aquarium based upon your aquascape & coral placement, then the PAR38's are really the poorer option for you.

Am I the only one that thinks this? I originally planned to use 4-5 of them over my tank, but ordered the 6 for a pricebreak. My tank has a 36x36 footprint, but the main showcase is the fish, and I'll only have SOME corals in it. I don't doubt that I'll be able to keep pretty much all corals I'm interested in (which isn't a whole lot) with this lighting, even if I decide to only run 4 of the fixtures, but I'll be playing it safe and placing my corals where I think they'll do best - based on my lighting angles. But like I said, no SPS/clams everywhere for me.

The fact is you can illuminate a entire tank. I am doing it and all of my new coral frags are showing good growth. I am using 8 over a 2x4 area and it works great. I don't miss the light spill that I got with T5's. If you have a rimless tank and don't want a tight light canopy the light spill makes it difficult to look at the tank from any distance. No fans are required, the built in heat sinks are very adequate since there is very little heat. Did I mention the low energy costs?
 
Certainly you CAN light up a whole tank with these lights but I think his point was that since these are spotlight bulbs, it plays to their strengths by using them in a spotlight lighting scheme. They do make great whole lank lighting for nanos though.
 
Ok let me put it this way you not only CAN do it but you can also do it successfully, at least for my purposes. The implication was that people should not even entertain using them for primary lighting which is just not the case. The key is to use more of them. I see a lot of people trying to stretch the light by using higher optics. Doing so will significantly lower the par. I guess this whole debate of one light vs another is pretty much do whatever works best for you.
 
The fact is you can illuminate a entire tank. I am doing it. No fans are required, the built in heat sinks are very adequate since there is very little heat.
Wait, wait, wait . . . I never said you cannot illuminate an entire tank. I also never claimed that fans were required or that their heatsinks were inadequate. I'm quite pro-LED, and try to push them at my shop - we're in TX for crying out loud - our home AC bumps up the bill enough, do you think I'm a proud supporter of MH lighting, or chillers, or any other device that will add hot air into my living quarters? Certainly not - the lower the temps, the lower the bills, the happier my animals are, and the happier my wallet is.

Certainly you CAN light up a whole tank with these...but I think his point was that since these are spotlight bulbs, it plays to their strengths by using a spotlight lighting scheme.
This is my point exactly. Through the inevitable light 'spill' in the aquarium, the entire interior SHOULD be lit unless for some reason you're using very few bulbs over the space provided. I'm simply saying that one should no NEED to use X bulbs over their tank, based on square footage of the bottom. If you had a pair of LR islands measuring 1'x2' & 1x1' I'd say go for 2-3 bulbs over the larger, and 1-2 bulbs spotting the other. If you plan on keeping some clams on the bottom glass/sand, throw a light directly at them, too - but light the tank based upon your organisms and their placement. There is very little, if ANY, strategy to most peoples lighting schematics with these over larger tanks from what I've seen so far, and I think that's too bad. I don't plan your budget, much less your aquarium - so to each his own (obviously) - but I can't say I don't think it's a shame if/when people are using more of these lights than necessary. That just means you're overspending, and either putting more light than necessary into the tank - or just having too much even distribution of it.

Ok...you not only CAN do it, but you can also do it successfully. The implication was that people should not even entertain using them for primary lighting which is just not the case
No, you're missing my point there again - I feel many people can be very successful with these lights over their tank. Like I said - buy as many as you want, and pump as much of this light into your tank as you want - but many people will be using MORE of these than necessary over their tanks - even nanos! I never said to use them as supplementary lighting, and I never suggested pairing them with other lighting at all. I myself am using the PAR38's supplemented by Stunner LEDs - as I want more than just the two colors of LEDs that come in the PAR38s.

The key is to use more of them. I see a lot of people trying to stretch the light by using higher optics. Doing so will significantly lower the par. I guess this whole debate of one light vs another is pretty much do whatever works best for you.
But this is where we disagree. For different people, more or less of them over a given area will be ideal - it will not simply be the same for all intents and purposes. I say this because not everybody needs to have their tank 100% evenly illuminated, like I implied in the original message - there is NO reason to have complete widespread distribution of light, much less any intense lighting, throughout the entire aquarium. Unless you simply have a large rock-wall/island that covers most of your tank, and your goal is to grow SPS & clams across pretty much every inch, the 100% even coverage is wasteful, and silly.

These lights are a strong new tool for achieving dramatic and effective aquascapes, and can especially lead towards much more natural displays. "Mileage may very" totally applies here, and I already said - your tank/money, your choice. But I can't help but try and stress that they don't need to be evenly spread across your tank, or all pointed straight down. The comfort of my deep-water fish in my aquarium is #1, and I can control that based on the lighting color & distribution. Lucky for me, I can target all my lights to be aimed at my rocks - so the fish can have numerous spots in the tank to be in a more dim light if they want. Another bonus to this is that most/all of my corals will be kept on my rocks - right where all my light is shining, so they're happy & comfy too. It's a beautiful thing, right?

What I was getting at before is what I'm getting at now:
- the average aquarium does not need 100% even light distribution
- you do not need to cover any entire tank with PAR38's to achieve happiness
- the cost of, and the crowding of PAR38's to "100% evenly light" an aquarium is not worthwhile when compared to the price & efficiency of whole aquarium LED fixtures (IMHO)
- if you're trying to achieve "100% even distribution" through the tank using only 40 degree optics, you are wasting time and money (IMHO)

Make sense?

fine print: I'm not bashing anyones displays, or use of these lights. I only wish to inform of ways to be more efficient when implementing these in a display, and provide alternative ideas - there is no good reason to waste money or electricity, period.
 
The fact is the higher degree optics do limit the par and may make it impossible to have any success with high light demand corals. When people try to limit the number of bulbs and increase the lighted area by using 80 degree optics they need to understand the trade offs. My point was and is you can you these bulbs as your primary lighting source if you understand the limitations. In my case 8 bulbs over a 2x4 area is not to little nor is it too much. I have plenty of options for lps and sps yet the tank still has some low light areas.
 
I havent seen anyone discuss the spread results from the par testing. Sorry if I missed it.

https://www.nanotuners.com/pages.php?pID=4

From reading the data, it seems the wider optics only have a minor effect on the increase of light spread and a far greater effect on limiting par. In effect acting as a light reducer than light spreader.

Here are the plots for the 40 60 and 80 degree optics at a 14" distance:

<img src="https://www.nanotuners.com/images/par38_14in40deg.jpg"/>

<img src="https://www.nanotuners.com/images/par38_14in60deg.jpg"/>

<img src="https://www.nanotuners.com/images/par38_14in80deg.jpg"/>

The "cone of light" of all three optics is almost identical, not at all what I was expecting.

I would imagine the resulting effect can look as if there is a wider spread of light but in actuality it just lacks a super central hotspot.

I would guess that the wider optics could be very useful for those that want to use the effect of spot lighting but intend to have the light source far closer and need to reduce par to avoid injuring the fauna.

Did I read these charts incorrectly?

Is there other data that shows that the wider optics can deliver light efficiently over a larger area?
 
Back
Top