Part of tailfin missing -- no other tankmates -- what could be the cause?

[HPark]

Hi all,

I bought a Potter's angel on Sunday. He's currently in a 20g tank housing my coral while I transfer to a new 65 gallon shallow. He'll then be qt'd properly but for now, I'm planning on getting him used to my tank regime. Very active and alert, eats pellets, mysis, etc..so far, very happy with him.

Tonight I noticed part of his tailfin seems to be gone. I did not notice this before at the fishstore or while acclimating him, but I have no other tankmates except for 2-3 small (like not big enough to fit in astrea-shells-small) hermit crabs and one astrea snail. All rock is 2+ years old so I doubt it could be some malicious hitchhiker. Could he have just caught himself on a rock? He's still super active. In fact, I can't really get a great look at his tail because he usually just pops out of the rock work and meets me eye-to-eye, lol.

I could possibly see him catching it on the aquaclear but he's so healthy, I just have a hard time believing the filter or a hermit caused it. Any ideas?

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Can you post a pic?

 

[HPark]

This is about the best I could do. Excuse the bad ipod pics -- this guy is stunning in real life.

Any ideas?

 

[HPark]

Another look -- also confirmed his tail was intact Sunday. Forgot I snapped a few pics of him in the bag.

 

[HPark]

One more of his tail injury.

 

[humaguy]

sorry, I can't see anything in the pic...

 

[Lsufiregal]

Powerhead? Ripped it trying to wedge itself in rocks? A murderous hitchhiker?

 

[jnc914]

It possibly picked up a bacterial infection at your LFS if it happened that quickly. Can't tell much by the pic, but it could also be parasitic. I doubt it would have been attacked by your hermits.
I usually run Maracyn for any noticable fin or tail "rot". Slow acting but effective.
I usually do two 1 week dosages with a 2 day break between treatments.

 

[HPark]

Hmm -- I guess my next question -- absent identifying the cause, should I start a Maracyn (or other) treatment immediately as a precaution or to prevent a secondary infection? I had planned on feeding for 4-5 weeks before doing any treatment and I still wish his feeding response was a bit more aggressive. He picks at everything but doesn't relentlessly devour food yet. I'm new to QT'ing and am a bit reluctant to haphazardly set up a hospital tank and immediately transfer him over to it.

Original plan was to transfer all coral and most rock over to the new tank in about a month. Leave a small amount of liverock in the old tank and then complete 2 rounds of prazipro. Just felt more comfortable taking slow.

And sorry the pictures stink. Best I could do. From what I can tell, it doesn't seem to be fin deterioration -- more like a bite or a chop -- very clean tear.

He was active and alert this morning. Will update more when I get home from work.
Thanks -- really appreciate any and all help. I've been waiting to purchase a potter's for a long time and really hope to make this guy the centerpiece of the new tank (even if he is missing a corner of his tail).

 

[jnc914]

I really wouldn't do anything right now, just observe. If it is eating well, and is still very active and alert, it could work itself out and heal on its own. However if the tail shows visible signs of a bacterial infection/continued tail rot, I would use Maracyn, but in a hospital tank/Qt. Good luck, I am a huge fan of Potter's angels.

 

[HPark]

Hi all,

Update: very aggressive feeding response and still active and alert. Unfortunately, it seems like slightly more of the fin is missing which leads me to believe it's some sort of bacterial infection or fin rot.

I am setting up a hospital tank tonight and reading up on Maracyn treatment. If it at all looks worse tomorrow - I'm going to go ahead with the treatment.

Dumb question -- why Maracyn vs Maracyn 2? Should I do one treatment after the other?

Also -- when you say, I do "2 one week dosages" -- I assume you mean dosing the suggested amount, wait one week + 2 days and administering the second dose, correct? OR do you mean doubling the one week dosages twice?

I'm reluctant to try any treatment to be honest, especially since its behavior hasn't slowed down. I generally think a healthy fish can fend off disease, but if it looks worse again tomorrow -- IDK -- just worry it'll snowball. Any advise would be appreciated.

 

[jnc914]

Mardel stopped making Saltwater Maracyn 2. You can use the freshwater version, but you will have to double the dosage. You won't necessarily see an immediate improvement of the tail, but give it time. Also, whenever you dose an antibiotic like Maracyn, you have to make sure you complete a full 7 day treatment. I do one whole treatment, run carbon and do water change, wait 2 days and start the second full treatment. Maracyn is not harsh on fish, but don't combine it with other meds if you don't have too. I have used Prazi and Maracyn together with no issues, but it is not suggested.

My biggest concerns with you setting up a brand new hospital tank is that you will have to worry about increase of ammonia, which often leads to people losing their fish in QT/Hospital tanks. You will have to keep on top of maintenance like siphoning out excess food and waste. Buy yourself a Seachem Ammonia Check badge for the inside of the tank, also have some Seachem Prime if the Ammonia starts to creep up.

 

[HPark]

Small follow-up. Did some initial research on fin rot - tbh, after 14 years of keeping saltwater fish, this is my first occurrence with it. Read that it is often times caused by poor water quality. I did a 10% water change on Sunday, 15% yesterday and a small 5-10% change today. Planning on heading to the fish store to grab 10g of saltwater to do a large change tomorrow, along with some antibiotics just to have on hand in case I go that route. I'm also ordering a replacement collection cup on an old CPR Bakpak skimmer I have around. Ammonia - 0 and nitrates under 10.

Makes me rethink jumping to the hospital tank. I worry that putting him in a smaller, less stable system would just exacerbate the issue if it is caused by poor water quality. Are topical antibiotics an option? We'll see how it looks tomorrow.

Edit* Posted this before reading your last post jnc914. Sort of my thoughts. I'm going to give it another day. As long as it's eating, I feel like it is healthy enough to fight off the infection. I'd rather it be in the most stable environment possible. I already worry about the water quality of a 20g, but figured my corals had been doing fine for 1.5 months -- maybe the extra food is hurting the quality though. Grabbing new test kits tomorrow as my current ones are a bit old. Thanks for all the help.

 

[namxas]

What you need to determine before treating the fish is whether it's a pathogen, or physical damage. I definitely wouldn't treat until I know what I'm treating...

Is the damaged area whitish around the edges?

Any localized redness?

Does it look "eaten away" (think zombie rot/chemical burn), or does it appear like a chunk missing that has relatively sharp edges, as if cut with scissors?

If you "tell" your camera where to focus (e.g., with a phone, you generally touch the screen where your point of focus should be), and back up some (your camera's lens doesn't have infinitely close focusing capabilities), you can likely get a photo.

 

[syrinx]

It would not be unusual for a fish to have a fin injured in netting, bagging, and transport. This injured portion could then fall off. Or it could have been caught on a rock etc. I also wonder about a hitch hiker crab of some sort you do not know about. I agree that I would likely not treat unless it has obvious signs of infection, as noted above, or if it was progressing to the caudel peduncle. Good water- stable temp esp, and good feedings would be my response at this point.

 

[HPark]

I'm leaving him in the 20g for now. Here are a few pics. None showing his tail, really, but he is settling down just a bit. Also took a couple of videos that I'll post the vimeo link to once their done processing.

Edit*

No redness/no whiteness. I'd say it looks...frayed? It definitely looked bigger from Monday to Tuesday, but I do not believe it was substantially worse today. Could this have been associated with an ammonia spike from overfeeding the first day or two (purchased last sunday)? I bought a new ammonia test kit today, came back 0 again but I didn't test until Tuesday after several water changes.

At this point -- I'm going to continue to monitor his progress but I don't feel comfortable dosing anything to this tank or transferring him to a hospital tank. Regardless of what caused it, should I worry about a secondary infection? It's not close to the flesh/base of the tail. I'm hopeful it'll heal on its own with good water quality/feeding.

Side note: After reading the Conspic. thread, I went out and purchased some Aqueon "color enhancing" marine flakes. Although he had been nibbling at everything I have been offering (Hikari seaweed *extreme pellets, SF Bay frozen Angel/Butterfly Diet, Hikari Mega-Marine Frozen food), I wanted something he'd inhale. I knew he had been eating Aqueon pellets at the store and I've always found flakes to trigger a decent feeding response. I also think I have a better feel for how much of a pinch of flakes he'll eat vs pellets/frozen.

I also have Formula Two that I'll try after I start rotating in the frozen food again when I receive the skimmer collection cup. Is there anything else I should be feeding or soaking his food in, to encourage fin regeneration/health? I do put out nori for him but he has ignored it thus far. I may try soaking it in the juices of a frozen cube and see if he'll go after it.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[HPark]

https://vimeo.com/75455967?utm_sour...3YzUyZDI5MGQ0NjY3fDIxMjc1ODEzfDEzODAxNjQ5MzM=

Not super great but you get the point...he's a quick little guy and isn't exhibiting any behavior I'd say is much different than some other dwarf species I've kept. Fingers crossed he heals up.

 

[namxas]

FWIW, that's what I'd do...if there's no visible pathology, just keep an eye on it.

 

[HPark]

Hi all,

Not really sure if there was a difference today. I did attempt to take a few more videos that show his tail a little bit. He's getting used to me more and more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tycx0YZHLH8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsDShJCX0fM&hd=1

Couple of notes: He's really started liking the hikari seaweed extreme pellets. I’ve also been thinking…maybe he’s actually a she. I didn’t realize how small it was until I cleaned a little bit of algae off the glass and got the idea to measure the magnet. It’s a hair under 2.5” and the Potters is around its size. When do these fish change sexes? Someday, a pair of these would look incredible. For now – he or she will have to live as the centerpiece of my 65g.