PC based Controller
- Thread starter KingT420
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stonkers
New member
Looks like this may be what we're looking for (I always check SourceForge first):
MisterHouse
What do you think BareBottoms?
MisterHouse
What do you think BareBottoms?
i hope you all dont mind but i think i would like to jump in with a bit of thing
im my search for the ultimate gadget i ran across this ,, it called an i-opener
it basicly a flat screen inclosed computer , after you make a few modification
,, i think it would be the ultimate aqua controller
hang it on the wall like a picute frame , have your probes , and pumps controlled by it giving a full graphic display
would be really cool
they are any where for a 180 mhz to 200 mhz pentium computer
pretty sweet if you ask me
on ebay you can ussally pick them up for under 100
im my search for the ultimate gadget i ran across this ,, it called an i-opener
it basicly a flat screen inclosed computer , after you make a few modification
,, i think it would be the ultimate aqua controller
hang it on the wall like a picute frame , have your probes , and pumps controlled by it giving a full graphic display
would be really cool
they are any where for a 180 mhz to 200 mhz pentium computer
pretty sweet if you ask me
on ebay you can ussally pick them up for under 100
barebottoms
New member
Oh, an Iopener. I've got a few of those 
Stonkers. I use Misterhouse. I really like it. Here is my idea of the PC controller.
While the ambitions of these project is great, there is just going to be many issues to over come. The DAQ for gathering data IMO is the hardest part. You have to have something that you can write software for to read the data, then trigger the actions.
For sensor and Data Aqusition:
Like a few other people here, I took the easier route. Get an AQII to be your DAQ. I use a version of Markli's perl script to read the data from the terminal port of the AQII, and log into MySQL and push the data into MRTG for Graphing over time.
For triggering Actions:
From the data I get on the AQII (to be done).. I will either hack up MarkLi's script even more, or just use it to be the external script for "actions" to MisterHouse or Heyu!
For Display and Control of the System:
It really doesn't matter. MisterHouse has a web front end that you can easily modify for your look and feel. So I can look at MRTG from any terminal around my house and just point a browser to MisterHouse to change any controls I might need. You just need anything with a Web Browser and some simple CGI programming.
Stonkers. I use Misterhouse. I really like it. Here is my idea of the PC controller.
While the ambitions of these project is great, there is just going to be many issues to over come. The DAQ for gathering data IMO is the hardest part. You have to have something that you can write software for to read the data, then trigger the actions.
For sensor and Data Aqusition:
Like a few other people here, I took the easier route. Get an AQII to be your DAQ. I use a version of Markli's perl script to read the data from the terminal port of the AQII, and log into MySQL and push the data into MRTG for Graphing over time.
For triggering Actions:
From the data I get on the AQII (to be done).. I will either hack up MarkLi's script even more, or just use it to be the external script for "actions" to MisterHouse or Heyu!
For Display and Control of the System:
It really doesn't matter. MisterHouse has a web front end that you can easily modify for your look and feel. So I can look at MRTG from any terminal around my house and just point a browser to MisterHouse to change any controls I might need. You just need anything with a Web Browser and some simple CGI programming.
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I wrote java software that is running my tank right now. I don't know anything about circuits and hardware, so I bought the AquaController basically just for pc access to the probe data. My software controlls the tank through x10, uses a database to keep control settings, and I have a jsp interface so I can monitor/control from the web. There's still some issues I have to work out and some enhancements to make, but it's running my tank fairly well right now.
I'd be more than happy to help out with software.
I'd be more than happy to help out with software.
Um, so whats the outcome here....
If there is software out there, where is it and what is it called? It seems like everyone has written their own for this specific reason but that it hasn't been published anywhere.
Anybody willing to publish to say SF so others can grab it and maybe work together to continue its development?
If there is software out there, where is it and what is it called? It seems like everyone has written their own for this specific reason but that it hasn't been published anywhere.
Anybody willing to publish to say SF so others can grab it and maybe work together to continue its development?
lesd
New member
I've done a little thinking on this whole subject. I have quite a bit of experience on the hardware design side.
I'm thinking something like a little linux-based embedded system with a ethernet (possibly wireless) connection. Box would have some sort of expandable interface for probes and be able to control AC outlets. Maybe a special powerstrip? Place this box under the tank to control everything.
Give the specs/interface to all the software guys out there so they can write control routines out the wazoo. Everything could be monitored and "webified" through the ethernet port.
But that would require a lot of work. . . anyone want to hire me for a few months?
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Does anyone know if the X-10 modules use solid state relays? After having mechanical relays fail on me all the time, I don't want my tank functionality to depend on them.
I'm thinking something like a little linux-based embedded system with a ethernet (possibly wireless) connection. Box would have some sort of expandable interface for probes and be able to control AC outlets. Maybe a special powerstrip? Place this box under the tank to control everything.
Give the specs/interface to all the software guys out there so they can write control routines out the wazoo. Everything could be monitored and "webified" through the ethernet port.
But that would require a lot of work. . . anyone want to hire me for a few months?
------------------------------------------
Does anyone know if the X-10 modules use solid state relays? After having mechanical relays fail on me all the time, I don't want my tank functionality to depend on them.
barebottoms
New member
Target processor? Wireless Chipset? You're talking about a lot of low level drivers that will need writing, or recompiling.lesd said:
Again, unless you have some kind of off the shelf "interface" to read the output of the probes with libraries for it, then you're writing all kinds of low level drivers again.
Pretty much the same for the ethernet, wireless, etc...
lesd
New member
Barebottoms,
Good points about the drivers. My area of expertise would probably be the analog circuitry for the probes and A/D converters (I work on front ends for ECG monitoring equipment). I'm pretty sure I could handle some drivers for the probes and AC outlet controllers (with a steep learning curve). There's just not that much to getting data from an A/D converter or turning a relay on/off.
I'll look into different processors when I have a chance. I know that many of the embedded processor companies are supplying a version of linux and compilers these days, so hopefully at least wired ethernet support would already be available.
-- leslie
Good points about the drivers. My area of expertise would probably be the analog circuitry for the probes and A/D converters (I work on front ends for ECG monitoring equipment). I'm pretty sure I could handle some drivers for the probes and AC outlet controllers (with a steep learning curve). There's just not that much to getting data from an A/D converter or turning a relay on/off.
I'll look into different processors when I have a chance. I know that many of the embedded processor companies are supplying a version of linux and compilers these days, so hopefully at least wired ethernet support would already be available.
-- leslie
Since I don't have much experience with hardware...I'm probably pretty naive and don't understand its complexity, but:
What is needed:
probe
get probe data to decipher machine (wires/wifi)
decipher the probes data
log and store the data collected
display data collected (montior)
make decisions about the data and change tank (control)
So, now that I've put everything on the table for everyone, see how easy it is!
Um...joke....
Ok, beginning with the probe part. After a small attempt at browsing online, it seemed to me that just starting off with probes is almost a waste of $$$. The only probes I found were wayy expensive and at that rate, might as well buy an AquaController from Neptune (it would be cheaper!).
But lets say that probes DO exist out there that are of good quality and aren't 50-100 a piece, what gathers the data? Is that a data logger thingy? How does the data logger know how to decipher info coming from the probe? It would probably have to be programmed someway in the api of the probe or something, right? I suppose if that is the case, the ideal situation is to get all the probes we need (temp,ph,etc) and have a logger thingy that already knows how to decipher that data. But then, aren't we back to AquaController (um, which already does all that and has a web interface...DIY?)
Don't get me wrong, I'm totally interested in a project like this. However, its probably not practical to totally start from scratch...is it? Especially when there have already been posts on this thread that specifically state that they have done this on their own already. If you ask me....we should evaluate all known hardware/software (designed for this reason of course) and determine if they could be worth picking up and running with instead of a system from the ground up...
What is needed:
probe
get probe data to decipher machine (wires/wifi)
decipher the probes data
log and store the data collected
display data collected (montior)
make decisions about the data and change tank (control)
So, now that I've put everything on the table for everyone, see how easy it is!
Um...joke....Ok, beginning with the probe part. After a small attempt at browsing online, it seemed to me that just starting off with probes is almost a waste of $$$. The only probes I found were wayy expensive and at that rate, might as well buy an AquaController from Neptune (it would be cheaper!).
But lets say that probes DO exist out there that are of good quality and aren't 50-100 a piece, what gathers the data? Is that a data logger thingy? How does the data logger know how to decipher info coming from the probe? It would probably have to be programmed someway in the api of the probe or something, right? I suppose if that is the case, the ideal situation is to get all the probes we need (temp,ph,etc) and have a logger thingy that already knows how to decipher that data. But then, aren't we back to AquaController (um, which already does all that and has a web interface...DIY?)
Don't get me wrong, I'm totally interested in a project like this. However, its probably not practical to totally start from scratch...is it? Especially when there have already been posts on this thread that specifically state that they have done this on their own already. If you ask me....we should evaluate all known hardware/software (designed for this reason of course) and determine if they could be worth picking up and running with instead of a system from the ground up...
lesd
New member
The pinpoint pH probe is only $50 retail. Temperature probes can't be that expensive. What other probes would you want?
I think those are the only two that are important to most reefkeepers. Salinity doesn't fluctuate that much (just use a refractometer). Does anyone measure ORP anymore?
My thoughts were actually that neptune controllers were TOO expensive. I'm looking to build something where the parts cost less than $200.
-- Leslie
I think those are the only two that are important to most reefkeepers. Salinity doesn't fluctuate that much (just use a refractometer). Does anyone measure ORP anymore?
My thoughts were actually that neptune controllers were TOO expensive. I'm looking to build something where the parts cost less than $200.
-- Leslie
hey i have the aquacontroller also..do you have a problem with the Seasonal Lights Settings? ... i cant seams to be able to program a set of lights to come on for 4 hours under the SUN command it limits me to like a delayed start of a 120 minutes total so i have to use my Time Command to start up a the lights i want for 4 hours
what things have you found wrong with the controller?
seams like a great controller otherwise
what things have you found wrong with the controller?
seams like a great controller otherwise
barebottoms
New member
Let me try to break this down. And lets leave all the "toys" out of it for now.
Data Aquistion:
I think this is the hardest part. You must know what type of target machine you want to write it for, the data aquisition hardware you plan to use. Then the 2 of them has to play nice with each other. Let say you use the DataQ DAQ on a Unix* type system.
If you're using the DataQ on say Linux. At the easiest level. DataQ should have pre written libraries for you for your method of communications, or open source versions of programs for you to communicate with the DAQ.
For Example:
WinDAQ on the serial port. I will need a method of accessing the DATA aquired from the WinDAQ for the ph probe on channel one.
I will need some type of API/Library to access what my current pH is.
Puesdo Code:
Then some other considerations is that the DAQ has to support your types of probes. Whatever the type of output the DAQ expects, the Probe better be able to output for it.
For example, your probe outputs PH in milivolts, then your DAQ better be able to read the milivolts.
This is the hardest part to doing a monitor/controller in my mind. But I know very very little about DAQ's.
Everything else is very easy. Once you have the data (read "numbers"). All the ACTIONS (x10 routines), Data Storage (SQL), user control (Web interfaces, GUI's), is very easy.
Once you get the numbers from the probes, its just data. Everything you want to do with the data has readily available open source options for it.
Thats why most of us that wrote our own software went with AQII's. We just need a simple way of getting the data from the unit, then write our own software for control.
Puesdo Code:
Don't get me wrong, I would love to do this without the AQII. I actually want more pH probes available. But without looking at how you get the data, making sure libraries are available for your target machine, making sure it supports your types of probes, doing something like this is a lot of work.
Data Aquistion:
I think this is the hardest part. You must know what type of target machine you want to write it for, the data aquisition hardware you plan to use. Then the 2 of them has to play nice with each other. Let say you use the DataQ DAQ on a Unix* type system.
If you're using the DataQ on say Linux. At the easiest level. DataQ should have pre written libraries for you for your method of communications, or open source versions of programs for you to communicate with the DAQ.
For Example:
WinDAQ on the serial port. I will need a method of accessing the DATA aquired from the WinDAQ for the ph probe on channel one.
I will need some type of API/Library to access what my current pH is.
Puesdo Code:
Code:
...
use SerialHandle serial tty1
read SerialHandle->DAQObj(1)
return SerialHandleThen some other considerations is that the DAQ has to support your types of probes. Whatever the type of output the DAQ expects, the Probe better be able to output for it.
For example, your probe outputs PH in milivolts, then your DAQ better be able to read the milivolts.
This is the hardest part to doing a monitor/controller in my mind. But I know very very little about DAQ's.
Everything else is very easy. Once you have the data (read "numbers"). All the ACTIONS (x10 routines), Data Storage (SQL), user control (Web interfaces, GUI's), is very easy.
Once you get the numbers from the probes, its just data. Everything you want to do with the data has readily available open source options for it.
Thats why most of us that wrote our own software went with AQII's. We just need a simple way of getting the data from the unit, then write our own software for control.
Puesdo Code:
Code:
read serial
parse data into variables
present and store variables
act on variablesDon't get me wrong, I would love to do this without the AQII. I actually want more pH probes available. But without looking at how you get the data, making sure libraries are available for your target machine, making sure it supports your types of probes, doing something like this is a lot of work.
USE A PLC!!!! Programmable Logic Controller!! the best one on the market and the cheapest with 120volt outputs and compueter interface..its basically a Aquaconteroller without the fancy enclosure its called the Crouzet Logic Controller....i know a source for the cheapest..like 200 bucks for the controller..
the Neptune controllers are basically a PLC and the Crouzet Controllers are way easy to understand and have 0-10v input from your sensors and 0-10v output or 120v output 15 amps...awesome
i used one to automate my greenhouse works flawlessfly and you dont need to understand crazy computer lingo..just Logic Ladders wich i learned over a night
and you can monitor your PLC and program from your computer!! with the software check out www.crouzet.com
the Neptune controllers are basically a PLC and the Crouzet Controllers are way easy to understand and have 0-10v input from your sensors and 0-10v output or 120v output 15 amps...awesome
i used one to automate my greenhouse works flawlessfly and you dont need to understand crazy computer lingo..just Logic Ladders wich i learned over a night
and you can monitor your PLC and program from your computer!! with the software check out www.crouzet.com
barebottoms
New member
fossill said:
Just this portion of it is what I've been referring to the biggest hurdle.
As a human, for me to use just a basic ph probe (not talking about a monitor). I would dip the probe into a solution, hook up a multimeter into the BNC connector into the ph probe. Turn my mulitmeter to Voltage. Read the voltage. Do the voltage to ph calculation.
Simple enough.
But my PC doesn't have a multimeter built in. I have no BNC ports for a ph probe input.
So for me to be able to access this kind of data on a pc. I need something that goes into the pc's serial port and some type of software that will know how to read the data from the serial port coming in from this object.
all Sensors need a device called a TRANSMITTER usuallt run from a 24v DC or DC source... if they dont come with one..they make the signal linear and power the sensor..from the Transmitter it then goes to a PLC or your computer then to your PLC..you need a Data Logging Device PC or PLC.. sensors are expensive and so are Transmitters are not any different....i allways look for sensors that have the Transmitter built in..hard to find but they are out there...
christopherl
Premium Member
Hey Guys,
I have been contemplating a similar project and have done a lot of field control work with building automation systems. I have found that klockner moeller builds what they call a smart relay that start with 8 inputs and 6 outputs. I can buy them from a local vendor for around $150. So, basically it's just a miniature plc. If this sounds like a viable product option let me know and I will find a link to them and post it next week when I get back to work. I just got the software and product literature for an electrical engineer that I work with so it won't be hard.
I have been contemplating a similar project and have done a lot of field control work with building automation systems. I have found that klockner moeller builds what they call a smart relay that start with 8 inputs and 6 outputs. I can buy them from a local vendor for around $150. So, basically it's just a miniature plc. If this sounds like a viable product option let me know and I will find a link to them and post it next week when I get back to work. I just got the software and product literature for an electrical engineer that I work with so it won't be hard.
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