Phycodurus eques and Phyllopteryx taeniolatus: The Leafy and Weedy Sedragon Primer

[WWCC]

Phycodurus eques the leafy seadragon is truly an exquisite species of seahorse, and it's price tag matches. This species is not as hard to care for as the media makes it sound. If you are able to feed it Live Mysid Shrimp, be equipped with a chiller, and a large tank with marine kelp and grasses, this species is not all that difficult. Phyllopteryx taeniolatus the weedy seadragon is not as rare as Phycodurus eques, but has the same requirements. They can be kept in the same system together as they will not fight over dominance. Please keep this in mind as you read Hogall's thread on this link.http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1778015

Please feel free to leave comments as I hope this will be a great informaton source to you seahorse fanciers out there.


Happy Reefing!:celeb3:

-WWCC

 

[WWCC]

If you have any experience with this species please leave some more information.

 

[Octoshark]

this species is not all that difficult.

Source?

 

[TamiW]

If you are able to feed it Live Mysid Shrimp, be equipped with a chiller, and a large tank with marine kelp and grasses, this species is not all that difficult.

I believe the experts keeping them at public aquariums would beg to differ. From Kristy L. Forsgren, who used to take care of the sea dragons at the Long Beach aquarium:
"In addition to the difficulty in obtaining them, they are extremely expensive to maintain and require an enormous amount of time! When I took care of the seadragon collection at the Long Beach Aquarium, it was my full-time job caring for and maintaining their exhibits. Often times I worked more than 40 hours a week and almost 15+ hours a day at one point once I was able to breed them!"

I suppose "difficult" and "time/labor intensive" aren't NECESSARILY the same thing, but most writings by people who work closely with these animals seem to work in "difficult" in the description of their care. Not impossible, but saying they're "not all that difficult" differs greatly to most publish and personal accounts of these species.

I got permission to republish two articles from sea dragon experts on my site, which details keeping both Weedy and Leafy SeaDragons:
Kristy L. Forsgren on Weedy SeaDragon Breeding:
http://www.fusedjaw.com/advancedcar...rium-of-the-pacific-in-long-beach-california/

Paula Branshaw Carlson of the Dallas World Aquarium, on Leafy SeaDragons:
http://www.fusedjaw.com/advancedcare/leafy-seadragon-phycodurus-eques/5/

If you have different information that contradicts this, I'd love to hear it as it's always been a dream of mind to own sea dragons. Not that I'll ever have that kind of money . . .

 

[Octoshark]

I believe the experts keeping them at public aquariums would beg to differ. From Kristy L. Forsgren, who used to take care of the sea dragons at the Long Beach aquarium:
"In addition to the difficulty in obtaining them, they are extremely expensive to maintain and require an enormous amount of time! When I took care of the seadragon collection at the Long Beach Aquarium, it was my full-time job caring for and maintaining their exhibits. Often times I worked more than 40 hours a week and almost 15+ hours a day at one point once I was able to breed them!"

I suppose "difficult" and "time/labor intensive" aren't NECESSARILY the same thing, but most writings by people who work closely with these animals seem to work in "difficult" in the description of their care. Not impossible, but saying they're "not all that difficult" differs greatly to most publish and personal accounts of these species.

I got permission to republish two articles from sea dragon experts on my site, which details keeping both Weedy and Leafy SeaDragons:
Kristy L. Forsgren on Weedy SeaDragon Breeding:
http://www.fusedjaw.com/advancedcar...rium-of-the-pacific-in-long-beach-california/

Paula Branshaw Carlson of the Dallas World Aquarium, on Leafy SeaDragons:
http://www.fusedjaw.com/advancedcare/leafy-seadragon-phycodurus-eques/5/

If you have different information that contradicts this, I'd love to hear it as it's always been a dream of mind to own sea dragons. Not that I'll ever have that kind of money . . .

My research agrees with this (including conversation with a scientist trained with a PhD in Aquaculture). That is why I asked for a source.

 

[WWCC]

What did you do for the 15+ hours a day?

 

[TamiW]

It wasn't me, it was the author of the first linked article. If you read it, it goes into detail about what she did to raise the sea dragons, I believe that should give some idea of what takes 15 hours a day. And considering how labor intensive raising just seahorses is, I can see how 15 hours a day would easily be eaten away by maintenance.

 

[Bluetangclan]

I think SeaWorld would disagree with you as well. Last time I talked with an aquarist there(Fall), they still had issues keeping them alive in their tanks, although you wouldnt know it to look at the tank either as they have quite a few of them.
Note I wasnt on the tour, I was backstage with employees so I got to ask real questions and take close looks at the equipment. The equipment they use for that and the other tanks is massive but even with all that they are having issues. You could literally swim in their quarentine tank they have set up at all times and its bigger than most backyard above ground swimming pools. So if they have issues, I would definately rate them fairly difficult to keep and thats an understatement.

Its like saying ghost pipes are easy if you have an ample supply of mysis shrimp when in reality its much more complicated.

 

[ann83]

If this is intended to be a primer, probably the first thing that needs to be corrected is the statement that leafy and weedy seadragons are seahorses. Neither is in the same genus, or even the same subfamily, as seahorses. Of course, they are related, and all can be considered "syngnathids", as can other pipefish.

It is my understanding that there are several areas of difficulty in care of seadragons, beyond the issue of providing live food, a suitably large tank, and suitably cool enough water. From speaking to people who have kept them, and reading there accounts, it seems that seadragons, especially leafies, are easily startled, and can be startled into causing life threatening damage to themselves. So, that would be one consideration, though I am not terribly familiar with the ways that keepers work to prevent the issue. The issue that I'm more familiar with, is their predisposition to Uronema and other ciliate issues, which can be very difficult to deal with. Combating Uronema requires harsh prescription antimalarials, and can cause permanent damage and death if not dealt with. Beyond that, the weak snick issues and inability to feed that can be caused both by ciliates and by physical damage are difficult to deal with. It isn't out of the question for the seadragon to require being handfed. On the disease issues, dedicated seahorse hobbyists may already be familiar with what may be required, but they also do need to remember that these things are happening with a $5,000 animal that is larger, more delicate, more easily stressed, and most often is already on live foods. Those who have not dealt with a sick seahorse, may not be familiar with just what sort of dedication is "standard fare" for the crazy syngnathid people.

 

[Elysia]

If this is intended to be a primer, probably the first thing that needs to be corrected is the statement that leafy and weedy seadragons are seahorses.

Thank you for addressing that, Ann, as I think that statement was about as jaw-dropping as the "not difficult" one.

 

[TamiW]

I believe that most (all?) syngnathids are considered seahorses in Asian countries. In most science disciplines as well as western cultures, we cut off the seahorse group at the genus Hippocampus. However, I'd be hard pressed to say that calling a sea dragon a seahorse is wrong since it's a common name, and more people in this world call them seahorses than don't.

 

[WWCC]

There dosent seem to be alot of information on keeping them in captivity on the web, so I think I speak for us all when I say I'd like to see as much information on keeping them as possible.

 

[WWCC]

I know seadrags are a temperate species and require a chiller, but what is their target temp range?

 

[timinnl]

I think the answers to your questions should be directed towards public aquariums. I can not think or know of any in the private sector. It will be all guess work on our part. They have some on display @ the Barcelona Aquarium that I saw last year. The tank measure over 2 meter L x 1.5 W meter X 2.5 H I think.

Kind Regards,

Tim

 

[WWCC]

Thanks Tim

 

[Bluetangclan]

Thats a short tank. Sea World has two tanks. They built the second because the first wasnt tall enough at 8 or 9 feet. Its close to if not taller than 12 feet or so, but only about 3 feet wide. No idea on the exact temp range but I am guessing its in the mid 60s off hand.

 

[WWCC]

Do you think they could acclimate to 70'F?

 

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

With as delicate as these creatures are at their normal temperatures, I honestly doubt it.

 

[ann83]

I replied to your PM. No, they won't acclimate to the 70's.

I thought that you said you had done a lot of research on them? There is definitely reading out there about their ideal temperature, etc. I truly do hope you are not planning on trying to acquire some and are just playing "what ifs" or trying to get people worked up <sigh>.

 

[WWCC]

No , no Im just curious. My research was skipping in and about the internet about them in their natural range. Not a lot of help there... So i posed the question here. I would like to get some, but that is not in the near future for me Thanks guys! more opinions are appreciated as this is intended to be a primer