Phytoplankton and Zookplankton reactor?
- Thread starter Drachs
- Start date
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13450397#post13450397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
Benefit or directly feed upon? Two very different concepts I must say
Many corals will benefit from the feeding of phyto due to the larger population of zooplankton and bacterplankton.
Sure and many will find increased nutrients harmful. There are also plenty of ways to feed zooplankton without dosing live phyto.Filter feeders will benefit directly,though.So it depends on what you are trying to accomplish.You only have increased nutrients if you over feed 
The trick to any feeding protocol is to meet your tanks dynamic energy budget with out crossing over the top 
Many copepods won't do well with out phyto but other "pods" care less as they tend to hunt other things, like copepods.
The trick to any feeding protocol is to meet your tanks dynamic energy budget with out crossing over the top Many copepods won't do well with out phyto but other "pods" care less as they tend to hunt other things, like copepods.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13585987#post13585987 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
You only have increased nutrients if you over feed
I don't think it is a bad thing to dose phytoplankton. I just don't see a continuous need for it in many systems that produce enough of their own,particulary if nutrients are not carefully monitored and kept at optimal levels for the organisms being kept. In an sps dominated tank for example it's difficult to maintain PO4 at less than .09ppm and nitrates at near 0 even without dosing extra green water.It is also important to use limited coral feeding of foods of an appropriate micron size. Feeding a pod to an sps would be like feeding a house to a dog.This is especially so if you are feeding a substantial fish population. Perspective and balance are important when it comes to dosing anything including phytoplankton.It's not the adult copepod they'd be feeding upon but rather the copepodites, not to mention many copepod species fall in the perfect food size range for SPS Do a scholar search on the topic, you'll see what I've read countless times If you have any problems getting the papers let me know, I have just about everyone under the sun. To be totally transparent I work for Reef Nutrition and have been an avid SPS grower for over 10 years Like you, I know my stuff
Do a scholar search on the topic, you'll see what I've read countless times If you have any problems getting the papers let me know, I have just about everyone under the sun. To be totally transparent I work for Reef Nutrition and have been an avid SPS grower for over 10 years Like you, I know my stuff 
TheH
New member
I don't understand the direct association between adding live phytoplankton and increased nutrient levels being implied here. Surely, if the phytoplankton is live it is not just simply disintegrating into nutrients in the water? I can see the issue with dead phytoplankton or phytoplankton-substitute quickly rotting in the water though.
tmz: Is it your experience that many hobbyist systems produce significant quantaties of phytoplankton on their own? Enough to feed their inhabitants? My understanding was that this is not the case and that is why non-photosynthetic corals are such a challenge to keep in captivity.
tmz: Is it your experience that many hobbyist systems produce significant quantaties of phytoplankton on their own? Enough to feed their inhabitants? My understanding was that this is not the case and that is why non-photosynthetic corals are such a challenge to keep in captivity.
aninjaatemyshoe
New member
The nutrients added to the tank from home-cultured live phytoplankton are not primarily from the phyto itself but from the food (fertilizer) in the culture water used to grow the phyto. Home grown green water is rather high in nutrients. Phytoplankton that you buy, such as that from Reef Nutrition, have the excess nutrients removed. So, you are only dealing with the nutrients added from the breakdown of the phyto cells themselves.
It is my understanding and experience that the vast majority of tanks do not produce enough phytoplankton nor zooplankton to support non-photo corals by themselves. Phytoplankton is produced to some degree in all tanks. Diatom blooms, for instance, are very common in newly established tanks, but usually the diatom population crashes at some point. The amount of phytoplankton and zooplankton in our tanks, however, is quite sparse when compared with what is available on a natural reef.
It is my understanding and experience that the vast majority of tanks do not produce enough phytoplankton nor zooplankton to support non-photo corals by themselves. Phytoplankton is produced to some degree in all tanks. Diatom blooms, for instance, are very common in newly established tanks, but usually the diatom population crashes at some point. The amount of phytoplankton and zooplankton in our tanks, however, is quite sparse when compared with what is available on a natural reef.
What happens to a phyto cell that doesn't have the required nutrients to die? It dies. Very little phyto grows in our systems, a few diatoms, blue greens, etc do live, but most of what is fed to reefs can't survive all that long in our nutrient poor systems. If we maintained the nutrient levels required to grow the amount our filter feeders needed, you'd have major issues with invasive algae.
There is also a fine line when talking about dead, live or non viable phyto. Recent studies have shown much of the oceanic phytoplankton (~70%) to be non viable. Now if you where to take some companies word on this, non viable means dead (simply not true). Just because phyto can not divide does not equate to it being dead.
There is also a fine line when talking about dead, live or non viable phyto. Recent studies have shown much of the oceanic phytoplankton (~70%) to be non viable. Now if you where to take some companies word on this, non viable means dead (simply not true). Just because phyto can not divide does not equate to it being dead.
Mine does for most of my my needs. The only non photosynthetic corals I keep are dendrophylia and I target feed them when I feed my fish. I keep a mixture of sps lps and leathers. I have about 40 fish and hundreds of coralsi n the 500g system and do feed well including cycloipeeze ,mysis brine,bloodworm , nori and Prime Reef flake ( a great poduct btw). Additonaly I feed some Coral Frenzy at night 1x per week to get some small micron sized oyster eggs.etc. The challenge is to maintain the proper nutrient flux, enough to supplement autotrophic corals and feed the fish and not too much for too long so that nitrogenous wastes and phosphorous exceed optimal levels for the type(s) of corals you are keeping. Obviously, in a tank with a large number of filter feeders and heterotrophic(non photosynthetic corals) much higher levels of feeding are required and there is an ongoing reqiurment for a copious amount of live zooplankton and the phytoplankton they need. This is not the case in many tanks.. I just think it's important to keep in mind that regualr phyto dosing may not be necessary or even the best thing for every system. The variable needs of different organisms from different depths and waters with variable nutrient and organics levels is one thing that makes keeping a mixed reef challenging.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13598025#post13598025 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
It's not the adult copepod they'd be feeding upon but rather the copepodites, not to mention many copepod species fall in the perfect food size range for SPS
Well thanks for the compliment and I'll take you up on some of the papers later. I for one have a lot to learn and enjoy doing just that. Again I don't think phyto dosing is bad or necessarily good in every system. I do think it's important to think about the system you are keeping and exactly what you are trying to accomplish and to understand what a supplement wether chemical ,mechanical or nutritional will actually do in your system before introducing it.
Just a final note to answer a question posed earlier.. Yes dosing phyto will increase nutrient levels as will any food . Even live phyto will die and degrade and they as all living things contain nitorgen and phosphorus and carbon.Some of it will be eaten and passed out as excrement from the consuming organism and some of it will be converted into tissue and growth of desirable prganisms such as pods and filter feeders and undesireable organisms such as nuisance algaes .Some of it will be drawn of by the skimmer and some of it will contribute to the total undesireable oragnics in the tank and perhaps be drawn out by activated carbon or broken down by bacteria or ozone if dosed. Live phyto is not a bad thing for certain pourposes but it is not a free lunch.
jtreefdweller
New member
Some links if you plan on growing without a reactor.
Source of live nannochlorpsis, tetraselmis, T-Isochrysis
https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure/agora.cgi
How to culture rotifers
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/breeder.htm
How to culture phyto
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/breeder.htm
Source of live nannochlorpsis, tetraselmis, T-Isochrysis
https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure/agora.cgi
How to culture rotifers
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/breeder.htm
How to culture phyto
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/breeder.htm
virginiadiver69
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13584566#post13584566 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
Would you name a few?
I meant feed zooplankton to the corals not provide food for the zooplankton themselves.Obviously freeze dried,frozen or concentrated zooplankton foods are one way. Live rotifers is another or atremia napauli or you may wish to keep a separate copepod culture.If you wan't to supplement the phytoplankton your tank produces you can use live phyto or freeze dried phyto or concentrates.
