Pimpin' Ain't Easy

Okay, we are now getting more to the point of where I had hoped this thread would go.

Skeptic, I wish you luck. Be patient with your purchases and make friends on this forum, other forums and with locals. I have found that some of the best purchases and information I gathered were from people who I had the pleasure of meeting in person. Thanks fly and air, for the tips offered up to skeptic in regards to buying online.
 
If a zoa is rare and extremely hard to find, like anything else, it is worth a lot of money. Selling 1-2 polyps at a time enables people like me to buy them, grow them out, and sell/trade to friends so that this hobby moves forward. In my opinion its called "responsible reefkeeping" and its what we are all supposed to be doing. After awhile the expensive corals are not worth as much because the market has become more flooded with the corals and they are no longer rare.
Over the years i have seen many different types of corals and fish become "vogue" and expensive. What I do not like is when people take a coral, give it thier own name and expect others to fall in love and pay $40.00 per polyp.
Right now Aussie LPS's are popular and not seen in a lot of tanks, they are as such worth more, next it most likely be aussie sps until collectors have them and are trading them more.
Dont like the coral? Dont buy it..thats my opinion. I dont buy brown zoas but I bet a bunch of newer hobbiests would love them.
 
If a zoa is rare and extremely hard to find, like anything else, it is worth a lot of money
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Most are a dime a dozen-you just have to know what to look for and understand how they will change in aquariums and when to find them.

There is not some magic zoanthid garden in the south of Guam??

They almost all come from the same places in our vast ocean's.

Each will change for the worse or better. good luck
 
I often buy one polyp frags do to the fact that money isn't always available, and that way I can have multiple varieties and it's fun to watch them grow out.
 
The per polyp stuff started because buyers ALWAYS want to know how many polyps they're getting. The buyers have pretty much demanded per polyp selling. :P

With that said, I'm not a seller and I only do local trades and buying.
 
i have sold single polyp frags (but most have grown to 2-3 polyps)

I HAVE BOUGHT SINGLE POLYPS

(THIS ISNT JUST ZOOS (ACANS)(chalices) if you dont want dont buy this is getting to be to common on this board
 
Me too. I think part of being a collector as well as just building a display tank is growing coral. I traded a friend for a single polyp of Purple Death and with-in 3 weeks I had 3 more polyps. This was way more satisfying then buying a frag of 15 polyps for $300.00+ and praying that nothing happened to them. If anything happened to my friends tank, I can return the favor by giving her a polyp or two to start out agin without worrying about compensation.

Single polyp trading/selling is the responsible way to be a member of the reefing community in my opinion.
 
The per polyp stuff started because buyers ALWAYS want to know how many polyps they're getting
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You could always ask for a picture of the actual frag.

I HAVE BOUGHT SINGLE POLYPS
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I have also as well but I have learned that is not always the best method and it severely cuts the corals chances of surviving. I have not bought this way in a few years.


(THIS ISNT JUST ZOOS (ACANS)(chalices) if you dont want dont buy this is getting to be to common on this board
Click to expand...


I can't speak for LPS because I only buy colonies for my nano.
If it is such a common occurrence in this forum then there might be a problem, and people might be aggravated by this practice?? Just a thought?. It would also be great if collectors stop purchasing by the polyp.
I never thought I would say this but I would rather buy polyps from my LFS and save about 90% than get them aqua cultured and have a name behind them. JMHO

Most of my rare polyps come from the North East, Southern, Western part of Guam-In case any one was looking for that rare gem. They also have sand there as well....but it is very very rare sand-and it will change color depending on the aquarium! good luck
 
Courtney-
If I were single I would spend a full 40 hour work week trying to find someone as striking as you!
Welcome to the forum!

I put your hard earned tax dollars to work-for my living. I will leave it at that...again welcome to the zoanthid forum. good luck
 
I just wanted to add a few words from my own personal experience. It’s gonna be a long reply, so you might want to grab a Pepsi to sip on LOL.

I remember vividly the days of purchasing an entire colony of just about any color imaginable prior to 2005. The prices were very affordable, ranging from $ 15 for a 2 inch frag of 15 polyps. $35 to 65 for a large 4 to 5 inch rock of 50 polyps. Believe me, it’s true. So what happened? It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with supply and demand as some have stated, NOTHING. There is more supply now then there ever has been. More exporting, more collection sights, more sights being discover with lots of new zoas and palys of which we have never seen before.

QUOTE
“May I ask why you or anyone responsible would buy one polyp, or why someone would sell one polyp?”

For one simple reason, money. It has become profitable to buy and sell zoas and palys by the polyp, just view the selling forums of every sight on the web. Many, not all buyers, are doing so because it is the only way to get anything different, pretty or a combination of the two. Per polyp selling didn’t originate with E stores or LFS, it started with guys like you and me. They now mask selling per polyp as a means of supporting their reefing cost. This is sometimes true, but by and large, it isn’t the norm. New web sights are popping up every single day selling zoas and palys by the polyp, and I know many of them. Can you blame them? LFS have jumped on the same bandwagon. If everyone else is doing it, do you think everyone else won’t jump in for a piece of the pie? Again, can you blame them? And all of this coincided with the assigning of names. Skyrocketing prices in conjunction with those who are using names for the wrong purpose, has lead to abrupt increase in frag tanks. There are just as many frag tanks now as there are reef tanks. Why? Money !!!!

Naming was created as a means of identification for some as the zoas and palys explosion began back in 2005 in conjunction with the skyrocketing price rise, not for a colony, but now, for a single polyp.

QUOTE
“Why are people so stingy that they have to sell by the polyp instead of offering healthy multiple polyp frags for reasonable prices?”

I don’t think it has anything to do with being stingy, really. It has everything to do with profit, and lots of it. I broke down my entire prop system in 2005 because I simply refuse to sell highly quality zoas and palys grown in optimal conditions for my normal asking price, $ 15 for a frag of 15 to 20. Why? Because those whom I was selling to simply took them home, photographed them and placed them back on the same sight that they purchased them from me. Or, they would be assigned a name, chopped up, and sold by the polyp. I just did a bit of research, and it seems the last frags I sold were called Sour Apples. I sold a young reefer 10 of them for $ 10.00. I sold the last of my Purple Deaths for $ 3.00 a polyp. I sold 20 polyp Blue zoa frag for $ 20. The guy couldn’t believe the price I charged him. He felt so guilty; he wanted to give me more money. Why? He was convinced that what he saw on line and locally was the way it was going to be everywhere. In short, this has become the norm.

QUOTE
“I have yet to see someone with a thousand polyps of Tubbs Blues or Rose Nebulas.”

I doubt if you every will see thousands in one tank unless it is an extremely large system. I use to have hundreds of the same polyp on one rock. It was the very reason I had to break the entire tank down and start over again from scratch or small frags.

QUOTE
“Most of the more colorful types of zoanthids are more difficult to get a hold of”

My friend, this simply isn’t true. You can find anything you want; you just have to look for them. Contact as many E stores, web sights, LFS, friends, buddies etc, and you will find what you want. I can’t tell you how many times I have walked into a LFS and found a gem just sitting there, stunning and with no name. To be very honest, that is what drives me, the hunt for polyps with no names while everyone else fights over the same old polyps that every reefer who has zoas has in their system. I am totally against names, we have done very well for many many years without names. On the other hand, naming has benefited me dozens of times. It is seldom hard for me to find something in a store that was sitting there untouched for months, I mean a gorgeous frag and most recently colonies. Why? They didn’t have a name.


QUOTE
“The concept of selling per polyp becomes a method of allowing a person with a limited budget the opportunity to buy some of the colorful zoanthids they want to have without paying the higher cost for a full colony.”

Not true, never has been. Per polyp sales are for profit margins only. It’s not to help you buy more frags, it’s not to help you increase your collections, it’s not to make it easy for everyone to own a piece of what every single person has on RC. If I as a 10 year old kid can buy 10 marbles for a dollar, and sell each marble for .50 cents, well, I’ll leave it at that.


QUOTE
“What I see as a big issue is the prices that people are paying and being charged. As soon as someone grow 5 heads they are like... wow i can make a bunch of money... chop chop chop.”

That is the gospel truth.


QUOTE
”The other thing that per polyp pricing is causing is more and more rare corals.”

Just because someone tells you it’s rare, doesn’t mean it’s rare. More often than not, it’s hype, it’s marketing, it’s a means to get your money. It’s funny how every single polyp on Ebay is assigned the RARE label. Per polyp pricing, has absolutely nothing o do with rarity.


QUOTE
“As these corals became more propagated their prices would fall with the online retailers.”

Mark this day, that will never happen. Prices will only drop when buyers stop paying those prices.


QUOTE
“Supply and demand guys. I dont sell zoas, or have ever traded single polyps. But I also dont see anyone forcing people to buy it.”

It has nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing to do with supply and demand. That is what people want you to think. “You better buy this now while the price is low”. “This is the hottest new paly on the market bro.” This is called Marketing 101


QUOTE
”Some Zoas just don’t thrive in everyone's tank, and that's why they command the high prices.”

Again, the seller doesn’t know you or your tank. They don’t know your parameters or your name. Instead of spending tons of money, wouldn’t it be most economical to find out why some of those zoas and plays don’t do well in those tanks. Zoas and palys dying have nothing to do with setting an off the chart price.

QUOTE
“I don’t know who started this buying zoanthids per polyp but it really stinks, mostly because all I’m doing is buying them! However, this is the nature of the market for the really exotic, rarely seen, zoanthids. When there are trends like this its tough to break them. heres why:”


I agree my friend. This is why I’ve stopped selling. I just did a 6 month experiment with growth acceleration. I now have 5 large colonies that I’m stuck with keeping or giving away. If I sold them for $ 25, they would be fragged into 20 pieces and glued to plugs that same day. ( Please do not contact me as I am not soliciting a sale. )


QUOTE
”If a zoa is rare and extremely hard to find, like anything else, it is worth a lot of money.”

I have seen reefers with 1 year in the hobby telling others that a polyp is rare. There is very little that is rare anymore, hard to find, yes, not seen often, maybe, but rarity is not always the case.
Just curious if you anyone can post a picture of a rare hard to find zoa or paly. If the paly that is labeled as rare blue paly buy a store or reefer who has it, and it was collected sitting right next to a dirty brown play which has also never been seen before, tell me why would the Blue play cost $ 50 a polyp and be labeled rare, and the entire brown colony would cost $ 30 and the word rare not be mentioned at all? Not because of supply and demand, not because of the blue coral, which might fetch a few dollars more. No, it’s because someone will pay more for the blue paly because it was labeled rare, hard to find, it had more color and they know someone is going to drop the money for it. I have no problem with color intensity costing more, I do have a problem with paying an arm and a leg for it.

QUOTE
“Selling 1-2 polyps at a time enables people like me to buy them, grow them out, and sell/trade to friends so that this hobby moves forward.”

I could do the same thing if they sold me a 20 polyp frag. 1 or 2 polyp sales allows a bigger profit margin. The person who pays $ 40 for a polyp has to also sell a polyp for $ 40 to get his money back. This is why it will take forever for these prices to drop.


“ Dont like the coral? Dont buy it..thats my opinion. I dont buy brown zoas but I bet a bunch of newer hobbiests would love them.”

I agree 2,000 %, but what about the common blue collar reefer who does like and can’t afford to but it? I know I know, we should tell him to get out of the hobby and find one he can afford. Or, if you can’t afford it, get out. That is not what reefing is all about. The reefing hobby is rapidly being replaced with commerce, profitability and sometimes blatant greed.

I respect all of your opinions and I only hope that you'll respect mine along with the facts.

Mucho
 
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It's all based on greed, my lfs was selling a 50+ colony of dragon eyes for $80, I mentioned that it seemed like a good deal and how some people are trying charge $10 a polyp online. The following day I went back to buy them, but guess what he was now selling them at $10 a polyp because "other people were". After that I lost all respect for the manager and store.

It's just laughable for anyone to say selling/trading one polyp is the respectable thing to do, it has to be one of the more ignorant things I've read on the zoanthid forum...
 
I'm not going to call anyone ignorant, and I know you didn't either my friend. It's just business to some and a hobby to others. I know a lot of people personally who sell per polyp. I even know many of the E tailers. I don't hate them at all, I just disagree. These prices are killing the younger reefers trying to get their foot in the door with a new reef tank. I meant absolutely no harm to anyone with my opinion. We simply disagree. I just never thought 10 years ago that I would see the day when single eraser size polyps which can grow overnight, be sold by the polyp.

Mucho
 
I respect your opinions :) I agree with a lot of what you have said Mucho but supply and demand is a personal thing and people will charge what they want and others will pay regardless of whats right or wrong. Supply and demand only go so far in this hobby when supply finally gets high, the price will drop.
I think that perhaps you and a couple others are only looking at this in a greedy buyer/seller kind of way. This along with many other hobbys where you can collect things is also a way to trade things especially among friends. I notice that you didnt touch on that at all so I dont know if trading a single polyp is ok with you but it has been a great way of expanding my collection and making new friends. I set up a seperate prop tank and have traded with many people in my area. If people are unable to trade and still want my stuff they can buy it but i dont charge much and dont take the cost of electricity or supplies into account when deciding on a proce. I would rather trade anyway.
I know I have added quite a bit of my own experiences and opinions to this thread but reef responsibility goes a long way with me and my reef friends. Most of us trade with each other and have prop tanks so that we are able to do as such. Maybe we are the minority but we feel that we are doing the right thing. My purple deaths and nuclear greens and other fancy shmancy "designer" corals stay in my main tank until every inch of my 400 lbs of live rock is covered in them, then I will consider trading some, maybe a polyp at a time, maybe a small colony at a time. But I am going to do what I feel is fair and responsible. If you want some basic green palys or a few evil mels, I have some frags ready to go because they grow so fast in my tank. In 5 years or so I will have some exotics ready ;)
 
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I think trading is great, whether it is 1 polyp or 10. That's what reefing is all about my friend.

Regarding supply and demand, it was being stated as a fact and I was merely saying that it isn't a fact at all. I have watched certain high dollar zoas and palys drop in price in recent months. Was it because they were no longer rare? Was it because now everyone had them? Do you know why I'm against these prices? I'll answer my own question with a question? What varieable changed in the hobby, the collection, the shipping, the marketing, the anything, that caused a single polyp to be sold for what the entire colony of the same morph was sold for one week before the price hike?

Nothing, absolutely nothing. Someone had the idea of chopping up a 50 polyp colony and selling them by the polyp, giving a cute name, and the race was on. It had nothing to do with supply or demand, it originated with an idea.

I would love to have your basic green palys, I have a colony of 100 that every hates, but i love them, LOL. Thanks buddy, LOL.

PS, I see that you are a Fireman. I have the utmost respect and admiration for what you do sir. God Bless you.
 
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Thanks for the kind words Mucho and I hope you didnt think that all my remarks were aimed only at you. Some people are closed minded and arguementitive but I didnt mean you. I respect you because of the way you carry yourself here and your awsome tank of the month!
It seems that the hobby has gone left instead of straight. Lots of people with 3 years experience and a lot of good luck on thir side started the designer name trend and started to charge Izod prices. Thats not at all what I am about and I have a feeling that you share the same view. But, we do what we gotta do to keep going.

BTW, my green palys are right next to my nuclear greens so I cant miss ;)
 
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