Planning my macro algae/ seagrass tank

[nawilson89]

I'm excited, I mean I am so excited I can't stop thinking about this tank.

So I'm creating a 20g seagrass and macro algae tank and I am pretty much emulating user Michael Hoaster. I mean I was going to make the tank this way before, but once seeing and taking the last two days to only get a few pages in I have learned out so much.

So this is my planning stage and I want to bounce my ideas off the forum and hopefully give me great ideas.

Where to start...

I will be using a REEF RADIANCE DM-12e
over this 20g. If by chance It doesnt give enough coverage, ill buy a second one.

So I'm going to start with mineral mud from Carib sea. Another user actually in my area and secretly I've been reading his posts for about 2 years recommended me to use Eco Systems Miracle Mud. I spent a few hours last night reading up on both and I ended up sticking to my choice of Carib Sea. Yes it is cheaper which is a big reason I am sticking with it, but also I didnt see much of a difference other than a user on some forum saying carib sea was a bit more "synthetic". Hey... it could be and probably is, but I mean we dose chemicals in our tank so, not every tank is all "natural".

So back to the point. I was reading through Michael's post and he did a layer of mud, then mixed some with fine grained sand and capped with said sand (Michael, I am emulating you. So I would probably go with that same plan. I did note however you saying in the future you would just do a DSB mix).

I plan on using star grass and shoal grass for my pick of sea grasses. A second area will be C. Prolifera. My rocks I plan to contain Halimeda, Graciliara (probably spelled that extremely wrong), Grape Caulerpa, and dragons breath. Hoping to add more macro as time goes by. I want to experience Ulva in my tank...

Now come to stocking.
Pods. i want LOTS of pods. I want to have a nice colony of Ghost/Glass Shrimp also.
Peppermint shrimp
One or two Porcelain Crabs
This is the part where everyone is going to go "NOOOOO"
hermit crabs
hear me out.... I LOVE hermit crabs. I mean LOVE them. i can't even begin to think of a tank with no hermits.

Carrying on
I want a pistol shrimp. Once again I LOVE pistol shrimp and can't think of my tank without one. My only issue is... mineral mud... wouldn't that get mineral mud... well EVERYWHERE?

On to the fish

My girlfriends on stipulation of the tank is that we either have a pair of clowns or a pair of sea horses. I'm sticking with clowns (i'd rather have neither)
Greenbanded Goby. I love Goby and I really would like to have a pair of them in this tank (last year i had a pair that breeded... so nice!)
I really want barnacle blenny, but ive noticed they are hard to come by and expensive...
and last but not least. A basslet... most likely a swales basslet. got one really cheap in the past from an LFS. hopefully i can get lucky.

So. Please criticize, encourage, give opinions, advice. Help me!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Sounds like a great start!

Another mud to consider is Floridapets.com's live mud. It has the added benefit of containing live critters, and it's specific to seagrass beds. If you really want to save money on mud, just dig up some dirt from the yard. Seriously!

That's a good selection of macros-maybe too good. Macros are great for competing with microalgae, but they also compete with the grasses. This is the situation I'm in now. I dose and dose, and the macros go crazy. The seagrasses benefit too, but not as much. It's a tricky scenario and I'm not sure of the best solution.

Lots of pods-good!

I see peppermint shrimp as a great temporary resident, to rid you of aiptasia anemones. Get them out after that because they will decimate your spaghetti worm population as well.

As for your pistol shrimp getting down into your mud, it depends on how deep your sand bed is. Since you're going with smaller grasses, you don't require a deep sand bed, so it could be a problem.

Good luck! I'm excited for you!

 

[nawilson89]

Sounds like a great start!

Another mud to consider is Floridapets.com's live mud. It has the added benefit of containing live critters, and it's specific to seagrass beds. If you really want to save money on mud, just dig up some dirt from the yard. Seriously!

That's a good selection of macros-maybe too good. Macros are great for competing with microalgae, but they also compete with the grasses. This is the situation I'm in now. I dose and dose, and the macros go crazy. The seagrasses benefit too, but not as much. It's a tricky scenario and I'm not sure of the best solution.

Lots of pods-good!

I see peppermint shrimp as a great temporary resident, to rid you of aiptasia anemones. Get them out after that because they will decimate your spaghetti worm population as well.

As for your pistol shrimp getting down into your mud, it depends on how deep your sand bed is. Since you're going with smaller grasses, you don't require a deep sand bed, so it could be a problem.

Good luck! I'm excited for you!

I saw the mineral mud on florida pets and it through me off because they sell by cup. They say 3-4 cups is good for a 55g. So i think i would do 1-2 cups for a 20g (just in case).

I just want to start it now!!!

I may section out a side of the tank for the pistol shrimp since there will be a bit of live rock in the tank. I could make that side higher with it's sand and hope he decided to build in that community.

I could die down on the macro a bit if it competes too much with the seagrass.

I could also not do peppermint shrimp at all and just stick to ghost/glass shrimp. Shrimplet's would be a great snack for the fish.

 

[cro117]

as far as the mud is concerned i wouldn't worry about it too much. despite what the companies allude to, the mud is a mining byproduct, and not a great source of trace elements in the long term. that being said, im a huge advocate of mud filters and deep sand bed filters. i used to work at a store where we sold our own brand that the owner was trying to market as "mo' better mud" or something like that. lets all be glad that name never made it to the market place.

i think micheal was suggesting just getting a cup or two of the live mud to help seed yours. mud beds can take a long time to establish sometimes, starting with a bit of live mud can go a long ways.

i'm like you with stocking, i love hermits, and i love pistol shrimp. i recently had a pistol wreak havoc on my entire tank, and yet here i am ordering more, lol. my advice, just stay clear of the caribbean reds, the bullseye, the caribbean blue legs, etc. mostly i'd stick to candy striped randals shrimp, and tiger pistols.

oh, and just my experience with macros, my dragons breath completely took over the tank and starved everything else out. every tank is different though as far as lighting, trace, and temp, so that was just me. right now i just got some c. mexicana, like less than a week ago, and its already doubled in size. if i didn't like it so much this might be a scary concept, but i couldn't be happier as it is my favorite macro.

good luck with your setup.

 

[nawilson89]

as far as the mud is concerned i wouldn't worry about it too much. despite what the companies allude to, the mud is a mining byproduct, and not a great source of trace elements in the long term. that being said, im a huge advocate of mud filters and deep sand bed filters. i used to work at a store where we sold our own brand that the owner was trying to market as "mo' better mud" or something like that. lets all be glad that name never made it to the market place.

i think micheal was suggesting just getting a cup or two of the live mud to help seed yours. mud beds can take a long time to establish sometimes, starting with a bit of live mud can go a long ways.

i'm like you with stocking, i love hermits, and i love pistol shrimp. i recently had a pistol wreak havoc on my entire tank, and yet here i am ordering more, lol. my advice, just stay clear of the caribbean reds, the bullseye, the caribbean blue legs, etc. mostly i'd stick to candy striped randals shrimp, and tiger pistols.

oh, and just my experience with macros, my dragons breath completely took over the tank and starved everything else out. every tank is different though as far as lighting, trace, and temp, so that was just me. right now i just got some c. mexicana, like less than a week ago, and its already doubled in size. if i didn't like it so much this might be a scary concept, but i couldn't be happier as it is my favorite macro.

good luck with your setup.

I've never done a DSB before and with my 20g tank, I'm not sure how it would look aesthetically. I guess I might be a bit confused on the mud part now. Are you saying seed my caribsea mud with floridapets? or using the florida pets mud to seed my sand?

Thanks for the pistol advice. i've only ever owned tiger pistols... well save for this one green one I picked up once... that was utterly destroyed by the thought dead tiger pistol (i hadn't seen nor heard from it in almost a month, there was no rearrangement in my tank so i thought he had died... nope. within an hour of this green pistol shrimp in the tank i heard multiple pops, then found the tiger dismantling it)

 

[cro117]

the "deep" part of dsb is relative. it basically just refers to deep enough for anaerobic activities. in a well oxygenated tank this will take 4-6" in a more stagnant tank it takes considerably less. you will probably have a "dsb" even for the grasses you are planning. as far as the seeding part, ya, i just meant adding a cup or two to whatever mud or sand you choose.

whatever substrate you choose will basically be dead, probably, so it will take months for micro organisms to start colonizing it. partially because there wont be enough organic mater for them to feed off of, and there's not much you can do about that in the short term, but introducing a small portion of well established live substrate will go a long ways towards shortening that process.

 

[wd11001]

I'm wondering if you have an opinion on Maiden's Hair grass.

I ordered some Maiden's Hair macro algae from Liveaquaria. I bought it because I love the way it looks and I need some green in my tank

I am curious to see if anyone has comments. I want to put it in my display tank, not my sump (I don't have a fuge yet). I intend to just keep one small piece and see how it goes. I have heard that they should be pruned regularly, and I will.

It comes on a small piece of LR. Should I acclimate it? Should I wash it off with some tank water? I am concerned about hitchikers on the LR etc. I would be most grateful for input.

Thanks!

 

[cro117]

i unfortunately have no experience with maidens hair, but i'm sure someone here does. hopefully your experience with it is a good one.

 

[nawilson89]

the "deep" part of dsb is relative. it basically just refers to deep enough for anaerobic activities. in a well oxygenated tank this will take 4-6" in a more stagnant tank it takes considerably less. you will probably have a "dsb" even for the grasses you are planning. as far as the seeding part, ya, i just meant adding a cup or two to whatever mud or sand you choose.

whatever substrate you choose will basically be dead, probably, so it will take months for micro organisms to start colonizing it. partially because there wont be enough organic mater for them to feed off of, and there's not much you can do about that in the short term, but introducing a small portion of well established live substrate will go a long ways towards shortening that process.

Ah. Well the plan was to purchase pre-established sand from anyone in my local area, the mineral mud was to establish nutrients for the macro and sea grass. I tried both a year ago without any mineral mud (also a less powerful light). no avail and the tank failed, horribly. This time I'm going to try with a much better light imo and the mud. I see what you're saying. So pretty much I am probably at this point going to purchase a few cups of mud from florida pets, mix with sand then cap with sand. I'll try to go for a 4 inch bed.

 

[cro117]

i mean im still pretty new to macro/seagrass tanks, but right now im basically just using play sand from homedepot like i do with my freshwater planted tanks. in my freshwater tanks i'll mix in fluorite or kitty litter to add some iron, but i've been a bit afraid to with my macro tank so far.

 

[nawilson89]

i mean im still pretty new to macro/seagrass tanks, but right now im basically just using play sand from homedepot like i do with my freshwater planted tanks. in my freshwater tanks i'll mix in fluorite or kitty litter to add some iron, but i've been a bit afraid to with my macro tank so far.

The only thing i know about play sand in a saltwater tank is that it provides to much silicates and it's frowned upon.

I'd like to see your build though!

 

[cro117]

silicates are pretty much always going to be present, so i try not to worry about it. i'll try to take some pics soon. i might have to check out some photography threads. the colors in my pics always comes out terrible. it might also be the fact that my camera was a cheap $200 camera that i bought 10 years ago, lol.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Silicates get a bad wrap. I've got some play sand mixed in my DSB. Snails need silicates for their shells, and sponges need them for their spicules, which form their skeletons. And diatoms, which aren't far from the bottom of the food chain, love silicates. Feeding the bottom of the food chain is a very good thing - a strong foundation of life.

 

[cro117]

bluezoo has a pair of flaming prawn gobies right now. i want them so much, but i don't think they accept monopoly money.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Heard that! I have to negotiate with THE WIFE. I've got a fish and some sponges on the way, and I don't know how I'm going to pull it off!

 

[nawilson89]

They look amazing, but I am more into a breeding pair of Greenbanded Goby myself :3

 

[cro117]

just tell her that the sponge came free with the fish, and that the fish came free with the sponge, lol.

 

[nawilson89]

Silicates get a bad wrap. I've got some play sand mixed in my DSB. Snails need silicates for their shells, and sponges need them for their spicules, which form their skeletons. And diatoms, which aren't far from the bottom of the food chain, love silicates. Feeding the bottom of the food chain is a very good thing - a strong foundation of life.

Interesting. I've been thinking of my tank from the reef point of view and not the macro point of view. So now I kind of want to try it, but still a bit standoffish. Plus You can only get play sand in 50lb bags and that's WAY to much.

 

[cro117]

50lbs is a lot, but its also only $5. i wouldn't have aquariums if it wasn't for playsand.

 

[nawilson89]

50lbs is a lot, but its also only $5. i wouldn't have aquariums if it wasn't for playsand.

True. I used playsand and pool filter sand for alot of my freshwater aquariums. I also used playsand in my first saltwater before I even knew about silicates. That tank had a HUGE diatom bloom and barely anything to combat it.


I spent a part of last night second guessing whether I wanted to do seagrass or not. I could get around the same look from C. Prolifera and much faster too. I think.
I'll probably do a little of both...