Please Advise: adding another dwarf angel in with my Coral Beauty

[ReeferCatFish]

Hello everyone!!

I would very much appreciate the advice of the URS community as I'm considering another addition to my 135. I am shopping for one more "display" fish, meaning an active, larger sized fish, and I'm partial to red for this addition. I currently have a Coral Beauty Angel I'm quite fond of, and I know conventional wisdom dictates that one should not mix dwarf angels, but I have always wanted a Flame Angel, and I'm wondering if anyone thinks that adding a Flame Angel to my tank with the Coral Beauty would be sheer madness?

As if that wasn't enough, I was strolling through my LFS of choice today and came across an Eibli's Angelfish. I am actually unfamiliar with this variety, but it's a sharp looking fish, I thought, and it's modestly priced. Does anyone have some experience with these Eibli's Angel they could share? Would this be a better or worse choice than adding a Flame angel in with my Coral Beauty? My specific concern with the Eibli's Angel is that I read it could get quite large, somewhere around 7", which would be considerably larger than my Coral Beauty, whereas the Flame Angel should remain about the same size as my Coral Beauty when they are both mature.

Does anyone think I could get away with adding either of these two dwarf angels, or am I asking for trouble?

I'll point out that I understand all these fish are prone to nip at corals, but at this point I'm only keeping relatively basic, easy-going softies like shrooms, GSP's, Colts, Kenyas, Gorgonians, and the like. Although I would like to continue to grow these corals, and other easy softies, in this tank, I'm not terribly concerned with the potential of a new dwarf angel nipping at the corals.

Any sage advice form the URS community would be very much appreciated!! Thank you for considering my concern!!

-RCF

 

[Henry Colf]

Thought about doing this once and all the reading up on it suggested that one would most likely kill the other.

 

[ReeferCatFish]

That's what I seem to be reading too. Thanks for the prompt reply!!

-RFC

 

[DEEP BLUE SIX]

As you've probably read,
The standard is usually just one per tank.
Or if 2: 1 Dwarf Angel with 1 Large species Angel together in a large tank.

But never 2 of the same type together. (NO dwarf & dwarf and NO Large & Large)

That goes for fish only or Reef.
SPS dominant tanks are best to try a large angel in.

Dwarf Angels can usually be tried in any kind(sps LPS or Softie) tanks, but there is always a chance of them picking at corals a bit depending on individual attitude.

That is the best the average hobbyist can hope to accomplish with an Angel(s).

Of course there are those that try to break all the rules. Most don't succeed.
But some do.

Most of the people that show rare examples of success with multiple angels, always have massive sized tanks/systems to manage pulling this off. As well as I'm sure, an unbelievable commitment.

An extreme example of an exception:
There is a guy in Oslo, Norway that has a huge system (total volume= 1,338 gallons of water!) who has Several different Large Angels mixed with tangs, Anthias and other fish in a full reef with a giant spiny lobster! He admits his angels pick at corals. But he manages it still with no serious negative effect on the corals over the long term. "Heavy Feedings and maintenance".

These are in a main 760 gallon tank which is connected to a second display tank of 368 gallons and to a 210 gallon Sump!

The guys Coral collection is pretty massive that he keeps with these Angels.
I found the whole article to be an impressive read as well as the pics to be beautiful.

Norwegian hobbyist "Dag-Jostein Andresen" in Marine Fish & Reef 2010 Annual Magazine.

 

[Maraschiello]

If you really wanted to do it, I would recommend changing some of your aquascaping so your current angel doesn't think it owns the place. Throw him off a little bit so he's not so dominant. With corals i'm sure it is harder but I've done it and it helps I think. Good Luck

 

[ReeferCatFish]

Thanks, DEEP BLUE SIX, that's some great info!! Funny, I was recently at the Museum of Play and I noticed they have several dwarf angels in their big tank (Coral Beauties and Flame Angels), as well as their resident stingray, and a few other odd balls, which is in part what got me thinking of this again. Of course, as you pointed out, the museum tank is truly huge, and my humble 135 can't compare to that kind of real estate. It seems like I'd be best off to abandon the idea of a second dwarf angel, and instead go with something a bit more innocuous, such as some of the Anthias I was eye up this afternoon.

Thanks for your input, I definitely appreciate the help!!

-RCF

 

[ReeferCatFish]

If you really wanted to do it, I would recommend changing some of your aquascaping so your current angel doesn't think it owns the place. Throw him off a little bit so he's not so dominant. With corals i'm sure it is harder but I've done it and it helps I think. Good Luck

Thanks, Marachiello!!

I agree about rearranging the aquascaping. In addition I have read that it's helpful to add a second angel fish who is bigger than the resident angelfish, in my case my Coral Beauty. In this way the impostor fish has a better chance of fending off the resident fish.

That said, I don't think I'm brave enough to try for fear of killing off my much beloved Coral Beauty. I think I'll stick to the guidelines and find another fish that appeals to me, but will be less troublesome.

Thanks again for the reply!!

-RCF

 

[DEEP BLUE SIX]

If you really wanted to do it, I would recommend changing some of your aquascaping so your current angel doesn't think it owns the place. Throw him off a little bit so he's not so dominant. With corals i'm sure it is harder but I've done it and it helps I think. Good Luck

+1

This basic technique works well with fish often. Reducing initial aggression.
If you can do it, depending on tank rock scape/set up.

However, Just my opinion, (not saying I'm totally right here) but-
if your going to consider it,
I'd also consider a tank upgrade in size first. Whether it would be a large size species angel or another Dwarf.. Not sure if your tank size would handle either- competing right now with your original dwarf angel.

IF the dwarf & dwarf is to be tried, just my opinion: a larger tank is a must to even have a chance to succeed. Fighting would be a major issue.

An the if the large instead, eventually a large species angel(even if small now) is going to need a larger tank to prosper itself as well as not turn into a tank destroyer. "Less space = inflated aggression and stress".

But +1 on what Maraschiello said in "changing the scape" though. It can definetly help.

I would also if you can, add at "night" after lights have gone out. This can help give the newcomer some peace in developing a territory while being "un pestered" or at least less pestered by the resident tank mates already well established there within.

Edit: You may be able to "try" this in your 135 I didn't see your tank size before when replying. I thought only 40 gallon x high.. OOPS. Sorry about that.

 

[ReeferCatFish]

Edit: You may be able to "try" this in your 135 I didn't see your tank size before when replying. I thought only 40 gallon x high.. OOPS. Sorry about that.[/QUOTE]

That's my fault, I tried to update my profile to reflect that I have the 135 now, but I guess it didn't save ;-) Sorry about that!!

I would definitely NOT be considering this in a 40, but I was hoping to get away with it in the 135. That said, I can't believe how small a 135 can seem at times, and I think I'm going to pass on the dual angelfish idea in favor of some Orange Anthias, which shouldn't bother anyone in the tank, I don't think ;-)

Thanks again for the input!!

-RCF

 

[Conesus_Kid]

Oftentimes, folks who pull this off add the angels at the same time. How long have you had your Coral Beauty? Is it a juvenile or full grown?

 

[ReeferCatFish]

My guy is maybe 3", but I've had him a about a year, and I'd hate to have anything happen to him. Perhaps if I had planed ahead, but I only had the much smaller 40 gallon when I got my Coral Beauty. I now think better safe than sorry, so I'll opt for something else.

Thank you for your help, Conesus Kid!!

-RCF

 

[block head]

it's a gamble,but i'd try go larger like a regal,or tiny like a pygmy angel.

 

[ReeferCatFish]

Thanks for the reply, block head, but I was really interested in the red of the Flame Angel specifically, and the Eibli's Angel just happened to catch my attention since it was something unusual to me. I'm thinking I'm just going to skip the second angelfish for now, but I would still like to hear about anyone who has done this successfully.

Thanks for the help!!

-RCF

 

[ReeferCatFish]

Thanks for the reply, block head, but I was really interested in the red of the Flame Angel, and then the Eibli's Angel just happened to catch my attention since it was something new to me. I'm thinking I'm just going to skip the second angelfish for now, but I would still like to hear about anyone who has done this successfully.

Thanks for the help!!

-RCF

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

suggestion:

suggestion:

Centropyge form harems in nature.

Perhaps look into creating a harem of CB's.