plumbing question - basement to living room

[pascal32]

The wife and I are looking at moving our reef tank from the second floor to the first. If we do this I would like to put the sump in the basement along with a 20 gallon frag tank. This will reduce noise and put the sump about 10 feet from the mix station which has the ability to pump to and from the tank.

We have a 72 bow right now, but are looking to replace it with a 90.

If we do this, the water would have to be pumped (from sump)

up 5 or 7 feet to the ceiling of the basement (I can adjust height of sump)
90 degree bend
over 10 feet with (2) 45s to jump across divider wall
90 degree bend
7 feet across
up 5 feet to tank
90 degree into tank

total height - 12 feet (possibly 14)
horizontal distance - 17 feet
total distance - 27-29 feet

so with a height of 12 feet + (3) 90's and (2) 45's => ~18 feet + 2 foot padding = 20 feet

To turn a 90 5/6 times per hour = 540 gallons/hour

Am I doing this wrong or do i need a massive pump?

also should I be concerned as to temperature loss as the basement stays around 60 degrees.

thanks!

 

[Sk8r]

I do something similar. But I would advise you use a hose instead of right angle bends. Drill 2 holes in the floor, right through the carpet: hides a multitude of sins. I use an Iwaki 100, Japanese motor (supply your own plug) which is way overkill. I think half that pump would suffice: I have to dial it back with a valve, or it would blow water across my living room.
Better too much pump than too little. And DO have 2 cutoffs, one between the sump bulkhead and your pump (exterior) and one between the pump and the tank, to control flow.
I have the same basement ambient and have no issues with cold. THe fuge does fine. The heater often doesn't even run.

 

[Haffs09]

To size an appropriate pump, you want to first calculate your frictional losses (head pressure) in your plumbing. I found this chart online to help out (I'm sure there's others)...

http://www.performancepropumps.com/PDF_Files/FrictionLossChart.pdf

For practical purposes, you can neglect losses through the horizontal run of pipe. In your case, say you want 10gpm and you'll run 1.5" plumbing. Using the chart here are your losses:

Vertical- 12'
90s (3ea) - 12'
45s (2ea) - 2'
Total losses ~26'

Now this just gives you a ballpark, because I'm sure you'll add unions, valves, reducers, etc... which adds to the losses, but gives you a starting point. When looking for a pump, find its pump curve and look for it flow at 26'. If you're happy with the output, you have a winner!

 

[briangsxr1000]

I have a mag 18 I am selling. That may be a good size for you...have to use the calculator and find out.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Haffs gave good advice on sizing a pump.
Normally I'd advise against using a Magdrive pump for such an application because of heat transfer to the system. If you have a cold basement a Mag might act as a heater as well as a pump but consider your house temperature in the summertime- do you run AC or have a chiller?

Suggestion: 48" long 90 gallon aquariums are nice but strongly consider a 48" long 120 gallon instead. The added depth makes for a MUCH better reef tank and it uses the same lighting a 90 would.

 

[pascal32]

great info! thanks! Looking at the losses of the couplers, I'm thinking of going with flexible tubing which will tremendously reduce the losses. I was recommended Spa-Flex which isn't cheap, but not too bad - seems worth the extra dollars in increased flow.

with the spa-flex I'd be looking at a head of probably around 15. to turn 600 GPH I'm thinking the Panword 150 would do the job.

The mag 18 has a 3/4 out, whereas the panworld 150 has a 1"

any thoughts on the outlet size?

 

[Capslock118]

Out of curiosity how do you plan on getting the pipes from the basement to the 1st floor?

Sk8r has a good idea, but that only works if A: you have carpet and B: you do not intend to move the tank.ever.

My .02 is that if you can, go through the wall. It's a lot easier to patch up drywall if you move the tank versus trying to hide holes in the floor; especially if you have hardwood floors.

 

[jaybfresh]

This can help you select a pump:

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

 

[pascal32]

Out of curiosity how do you plan on getting the pipes from the basement to the 1st floor?

Sk8r has a good idea, but that only works if A: you have carpet and B: you do not intend to move the tank.ever.

My .02 is that if you can, go through the wall. It's a lot easier to patch up drywall if you move the tank versus trying to hide holes in the floor; especially if you have hardwood floors.

I would go through the wall for the reason you mentioned. we have carpets, none the less. I'm pretty good at sheet rock and like you said it is easy to patch. The basement ceiling is easy as I just removed the old tiles (water leak in downstairs bathroom ruined the already needing replacement tiles).

This can help you select a pump:

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

Awesome! thanks!

 

[Posidion]

i have the exact setup your looking at running aprox 19 head on a sequence reflow pump great low power consumption and quiet i use about 80%of the pumps capacity the rest i valved back as recomended by manufacturer and then bleed off back to the sump but excesss water could have run other tanks in basment that was an after thought and i just never re worked the plumbing. that pump is pushing like 2200 gal an hour to my 90 (if i rember correctly its benn down there for 3 yrs now) the newer models are supposed to have higher rates and lower wattages but they are great pumps imo. as to your basment temp its no prob in my house and there is 250gal down there no heaters at alll but i do run two mag drives and 6 250watt HQIs on the system getts warm in the summer. used to be just right with a 125w heater before i added 200 gal of frag and fuge to the orignal system( this is where the extra pumps and light heat came from)

 

[pascal32]

Haffs gave good advice on sizing a pump.
Normally I'd advise against using a Magdrive pump for such an application because of heat transfer to the system. If you have a cold basement a Mag might act as a heater as well as a pump but consider your house temperature in the summertime- do you run AC or have a chiller?

Suggestion: 48" long 90 gallon aquariums are nice but strongly consider a 48" long 120 gallon instead. The added depth makes for a MUCH better reef tank and it uses the same lighting a 90 would.

thanks for the advice on going to a 120 - I thought the 120 was taller, not deeper. I looked up the sizes and agree that depth would be nice!

 

[Posidion]

ps i had to mod my mega flow drains to accomadate the extra water as the are made to handle 600-800 gph and i more than doubbled that.

 

[Jacwil]

Following this one hard...have a brand new 120RR in garage. Empty 150g stock tank for the basement sump. Currently the basement is 58 deg. I will throw 3 walls up and insulate well to help with temp issues.

 

[Posidion]

Following this one hard...have a brand new 120RR in garage. Empty 150g stock tank for the basement sump. Currently the basement is 58 deg. I will throw 3 walls up and insulate well to help with temp issues.

also gonna want a good dehumidifier as the evap from salt water and the damp basment corrodes everything fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek1: I found out the hard way, was no prob when i set up in the winter but when summer came rust/damp concrete everywhere add 1 LG dehumidifer from **** depot prob solved and tools dont rust overenight anymore.

 

[Posidion]

oops guess we cant write the comic name of home depot any more we usta could.

 

[pascal32]

also gonna want a good dehumidifier as the evap from salt water and the damp basment corrodes everything fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek1: I found out the hard way, was no prob when i set up in the winter but when summer came rust/damp concrete everywhere add 1 LG dehumidifer from **** depot prob solved and tools dont rust overenight anymore.

another great point. I have 2 dehumidifiers already.

If you don't have one get a LOW TEMP unit. a lot of dehumidifiers stop performing well as it gets cooler (<70). I'm no expert, but my kenmore 54701 low temp destroys the whirlpool non low temp. So much that i had to get the drain kit and move it to the sump!

 

[superkat]

i would have never have thought of that...that is EXCELLENT information.

 

[jaybfresh]

I'm no expert, but my kenmore 54701 low temp destroys the whirlpool non low temp. So much that i had to get the drain kit and move it to the sump!

I hope that was your house sump, and not your tank sump

 

[daveverdo]

This may already be in the plan but I have a suggestion about the drain. I ran a tee in the drain just below the floor added a small pipe running along the basement ceiling directly to the sink in the basement. When it is time for a water change I just open a valve and the water goes directly down the drain.

Dave