PM started 12 hours after adding PO4 remover

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9200567#post9200567 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Newreeflady
I'm not disregarding anything... but if they are improving, why bother with a dip? I will be watching them closely.

-A
Click to expand...

The only reason I would still suggest the dip is becasue you will be more likely to eliminate the bug. With what you are doing, you are certainly making your tank more hostile towards PM, but you would be more likely to remove it from the clams with a FW dip. A risk worth taking in my book, but maybe not for everyone. Good luck.
 
I am not sure what the "bug" is, but from what Barry has hinted toward, it could be something that stays with the clam, and gets out of control sometimes. Just like most of our tanks have the potential for ich occurrances, but it takes a stressor for them to affect the fish, then they multiply out of control and seemingly healthy fish are also affected.

I don't know, because i'm not a marine biologist, and my reading on the subject is rather limited. But, lets entertain for a moment that all clams have this "bug", but if you add another clam, that is stressed, that clam may be prone to attack and the bug may breed out of control and affect other clams.

Now, please, take everything i'm saying as absolute assumptions, I have no evidence of any of this. I am entertaining this idea and i'm treating it like this is the cause right now. I am trying to remove the iron in case that is the food the bug indeed needs to survive, and i'm trying to make the water very clean and improve the chances by removing all stressors.

If I see no further improvement then I will dip, but if they improve to where I see no signs of stress in the form of pinched mantles, i'll assume that the parasite is still present, but the numbers are under control and the clams are able to deal fine.

Time will tell, obviously a lot more research needs to be done here to give definitive answers on this. I have read that the FW dip works, and i'll try that if I don't get results with what i'm doing.

thanks,
Angela
 
I agree with all you have said. The only topic I will "debate" is that this whole topic is speculation. We dont know what causes Pm or what cures it, or what conditions it likes, etc. etc. etc. Granted, we can speculate a lot. Barry at ClamsDirect surely knows a lot about clams, but I dont know if even he can speculate that this is an organism (what I was nicknaming a "bug" in previous posts) is always presnt and only becomes problematic when it gets out of control. That seems quite a stretch to me when I know that there is not really any factual information on this problem yet (as far a I know).

So, my policy is to do what I can to remove this organism, as it's presence has only been shown to be detrimental. Like I said before, I'd rather be safe than sorry. But it is entirely possible it's an unecessary step. I just know I'll sleep better knowing I've done what I can to remove a dangerous organism, rather than hope it isn't going to get dangerous. Just my opinion, though.
 
I hope it came though that I did not say anything was sure about it being an organism.

Anyhow, though, when I first e-mailed Barry he said he hadn't seen any problems in his stock in a year... so, why did the clams he sent me get this problem? He always quarantines, and yet, the same day I got them they appeared to become affected... my speculation was stress caused this problem to rear its ugly head. But, of course, I don't know for sure. What I do know is that the pictures he had of these clams showed no problems, but in my tank they developed a problem rather quickly. Is it the iron, the stress? I don't know. But, I doubt seriously that dipping them removes the problem entirely, especially since so many dip and the problem returns. Maybe the creatures stay in the water, on your rocks, I don't know if they are even creatures.

Everything is speculation from what I can see. We might as well try different treatments until we find the least stressful way to treat it, or to prevent it!

Removing the clams for treatment in freshwater seems rather stressful... we go to so much trouble to drip acclimate our creatures to our systems, then we remove them and shock them with completely different water. That seems very drastic and I think that while it sometimes works, that would be my last resort (of course, I see no improvement from the last pictures, I will do the dip as something obviously must be done!)

Also, it's stressful to me. I have to remove them by cutting their threads, and return them to the system in a different spot so that they don't attach as I have heard from many that these treatments may need to be done multiple times.

-A
 
It sounds like your mind is made up. That's fine- you obviously care about the well being of the clam, and will do what is necessary, so we are on the same page.

Just something to consider, then I will clam up (pun intended)- FW dips may be more effective in control than you think. You made a point of how it would be stressful to the clam. Well, it is significantly more stressful for a simpler organism, such as a protozoan. I dont doubt as much as you that it would be effective. But nonetheless, I wont pester any longer. Good luck.
 
Update:

The clams seem to be doing well. I have just removed some of the carbon, and i've added a new skimmer. I haven't yet got the guts to add PO4 remover again, although I have a brand new container of Warner Marine Phosar. :/ Hope the skimmer can remove the phosphates.

-A
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9273213#post9273213 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Newreeflady
Update:

The clams seem to be doing well. I have just removed some of the carbon, and i've added a new skimmer. I haven't yet got the guts to add PO4 remover again, although I have a brand new container of Warner Marine Phosar. :/ Hope the skimmer can remove the phosphates.

-A
Click to expand...

:dance: :D
 
:) I'm still on the watch, it's unnerving, but so far they both are looking great. I wonder when I can stop worrying. Never?

Thanks for the help!
-A
 
Mine are doing great!

:)

I'll try to get around to posting pictures. I have to upload a bunch at some point soon.

No signs of PM at all now.

Best,
-A
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9182400#post9182400 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by E-A-G-L-E-S


~ 70g total system....using a Bermuda Aquatics C5 on a Ocean Runner non-needlewheel.

I pull about 3/4 a cup a day(about 15-20oz.) of drak tea with more solid waste usually stuck in riser inside of cup, which i clean 'daily'.
Click to expand...

how do you like your bermuda skimmer?

how many gph is the ocean runner doing?

thinking about getting one as they look like a very well made and effective skimmer!!!
 
Well this turned out to be a great thread....as my baby has returned to full glory as well. Still didn't figure out what it was, but I did do a FWD. Haven't used PO4 remover since, but will be trying Warner Marine HC in a reactor soon. Just going to run the effluent through a second reactor with black diamond carbon.

bergzy...i love it...not too many people use them. I'm using a OR3500. I pull a cup full daily, not tea either. And have only been feeding once a day for the past month+. I was thinking of trying an ATI Bubblemaster or an H&S, but haven't wanted to do it as i just keep getting a great pull. Not saying these are better or worse than the other two brands, especially H&S, which have great reviews. But it does it's job supremely well!
 
it will be interesting to see if the symptoms return with either method ( dip or no dip )

also to see what happens when you start the PO4 remover again.
 
Disease Research â€"œ help needed

As many of you already know, there’s a condition that’s killing Tridacnid clams over the past few years â€"œ “Pinched Mantle.” Three years ago Barry N. took it upon himself to try to find the cause â€"œ and treatment for â€"œ this condition. During that time, he has shipped over 50 clams at his own expense ($1,350) to several labs paying them an additional $592 for the work done to date.
Currently Barry has a group of doctors from the University of Maine who are working on identifying the cause and treatment for this condition. They volunteer their time but the hard costs â€"œ lab equipment & testing â€"œ must be paid. If any of you can help cover these costs please do. (Research link: http://www.clamsdirect.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1982 )

So far 29 people and 5 groups/businesses have donated to this cause and Barry is nearly ¾ of the way to his goal. After researching on Reef Central “Pinched Mantle” there were 254 threads, so people know about this and are concerned â€"œ yet only 29 people have stepped up to the plate and offered their support. All Barry needs is $740.63 to reach the goal of $2,500 needed to complete this study to develop a treatment â€"œ please help. [Note: This is just under $3 per thread] (Donations to-date: http://www.clamsdirect.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2020 )
 
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