PO'd about Zoas

[Socoreefer]

Outrageous pricing and goofy names is stupid funny IMO , we went to our LFS today and he had a colony of zoa's say bout 25 heads they were green with blue dots half way out the skirt, I asked him what's the name of those ?
His reply was "would you like me to give it a goofy name and charge ya more or do ya want the price for the colony ? "
Ahh hell just gimme the price ! Lol
Btw what name were ya gonna call em ?
Idk "green goblins" (all smartass) lol
If I hadn't bought a new clown n a rock I woulda paid the $20 for the colony
Just thought I'd share

 

[MUCHO REEF]

i see z's and p's I used to pass up when I see around years go when I used to hunt around for new polyps for collection, now being renamed, blasted with crap load of led or attinics put a cartoon name then sold as limited supply high priced Per polyp corals...... SMH

LMBO bud :lol2:

 

[KafudaFish]

I just think the common names are much easier to remember and to use for reference. A full description doesn't exactly fit on a 2mL PCR tube. They will have scientific names soon. Don't worry. We are working on it.

I am going to disagree with you on common names being much easier to remember plus they do not do a very good job at describing the color morph.

The other issue is anyone can provide a common name to a color morph regardless if it is a hobbyist or a shop. Then what are you suppose to do? Is it new or has it been around since you know who was a child and now has a new flair name?

How does that allow us to better to communicate with one another?

Not picking on you just having an open discussion.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Outrageous pricing and goofy names is stupid funny IMO , we went to our LFS today and he had a colony of zoa's say bout 25 heads they were green with blue dots half way out the skirt, I asked him what's the name of those ?
His reply was "would you like me to give it a goofy name and charge ya more or do ya want the price for the colony ? "
Ahh hell just gimme the price ! Lol
Btw what name were ya gonna call em ?
Idk "green goblins" (all smartass) lol
If I hadn't bought a new clown n a rock I woulda paid the $20 for the colony
Just thought I'd share

Wow, you're first post. Welcome.

Sadly enough, your statement above rings so true. :debi:

Mooch

 

[MUCHO REEF]

guess ill chrime in, as someone who has had probably a 100 or so morphs over the years, the name part does make me laugh, i remember the hornets before they was hornets and was $55 for a colony of a hundred of them, as well as many other of them, honestly i think there is only one name i havent seen in person yet and thats the soprano's, sure i have seen them, but the photo's you find online are so edited i wouldnt know one in person. the main reason why the pricing to me is because of the internet, and photoshop. i could post 5 pic's of the same zoa and make it look completely different, the term the jones is no different in this hobby, i think the only thing in this hobby i ever chased after and waited for a couple of years to get was 8line flashers, ill be honest i was so ****ed when they started coming in by the thousands, lol because it took me so long to get them and i caught my pair before they came in groves so i did feel special having them. buy what ya like and dont go by a picture cause unless your looking through a macro lense they wont look the same

I agree with you and the rest my friend, but it's not even funny anymore. I also remember those days and your price recollections are spot on. Just think, in 2005 they were $50 for 100 polyps on a mother rock that was baseball to softball size until someone gave them a silly name. Some now charge that for a single polyp which might die tomorrow. :headwally:


Mooch

 

[eg8r210]

I agree with you and the rest my friend, but it's not even funny anymore. I also remember those days and your price recollections are spot on. Just think, in 2005 they were $50 for 100 polyps on a mother rock that was baseball to softball size until someone gave them a silly name. Some now charge that for a single polyp which might die tomorrow. :headwally:


Mooch

I don't understand all the gripe. If you don't like the price don't buy it. If the polyps are so easy to get at cheaper prices without the name then by all means pick them up at the cheaper price. As far as buying something that might die the next day, who cares, everything you buy might die the next day (or break or become useless). If you live your life in this type of fear you might as well fill up your sock drawer with all your cash and never buy anything. In 2005 gas was much cheaper than it is now and there are no "cartoon" names there.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I am going to disagree with you on common names being much easier to remember plus they do not do a very good job at describing the color morph.


I see your point Kfish...I wish there was more focus on captive care and keeping them alive then what they are called or labeled.


The other issue is anyone can provide a common name to a color morph regardless if it is a hobbyist or a shop.

Which is why so many have so many different names.

Then what are you suppose to do? Is it new or has it been around since you know who was a child and now has a new flair name?

How does that allow us to better to communicate with one another?

It doesn't, I agree and don't see that it does.


Not picking on you just having an open discussion.

I agree, it's just a discussion


MUCHO

 

[A. Grandis]

I don't understand all the gripe. If you don't like the price don't buy it. If the polyps are so easy to get at cheaper prices without the name then by all means pick them up at the cheaper price. As far as buying something that might die the next day, who cares, everything you buy might die the next day (or break or become useless). If you live your life in this type of fear you might as well fill up your sock drawer with all your cash and never buy anything. In 2005 gas was much cheaper than it is now and there are no "cartoon" names there.

His point is to let people know the truth about those "new", "rare", "special", "limited edition", etc... Zoas masked with the cartoon names!!! :strooper:

The market has been changed in a very sad turn!!!
We're talking about the times when there wasn't any plug deal.
Plugs weren't even invented yet!!!!!!!
They used to sell the colonies of polyps on rocks.
Only old people like me and MUCHO would know. :ape:
Well, ok not THAT old! LOL!!!!

I think it is already normal to see those prices and the cartoon names, but the truth needs to be out there, so people don't play this money game without knowing what it is. They'll play the game, buying, only if they don't care, then!!! Pure marketing!!! Internet stuff!! Disgusting money machine, yes!!! One polyp deal, really !?!?! People should know better!!! :debi:

In another hand, yes, so what? They've got their will and money to $pend and those who $ells the cartoon polyps are making good profit nowadays!!!! That's what the market is about now and the main thing is that many buyers, even knowing the true story from us, jump into it, feeding the idea. Snow ball... :sad1:

I personally don't hate any of those individuals who are selling the polyps like that. This a hobby and it should be for enjoyment, not hate. Respect is mutual and it should be one of the best tools to keep us running. Nobody will be able to stop what's going on, unfortunately. This is today's reality. I don't think will even come back to what it was. Some could call it "market evolution".

The ID forum is a contributor to this crazy market!!! All the "IDs" in that forum is a feeding project directly related to those cartoon names!!! Shame!!!! This is the only site I can participate because of my short time. I've made many friends here after many years and I don't even visit other forums in my daily basis, but it is a shame there is a "zoa ID forum" for those stupid "cartoon names". Sorry for airing out!!

Cartoon names aren't important! That's fine to me, but the truth is that all those names are for market identification. They were created to generate money, not to help ID anything!!!

That's why my tip for all of you is to invest in a good trading relationship with fellow aquarists in your local reef clubs. That's the best solution for the problem.
Another way to avoid the money makers would be Ebay, I guess.
Some web sites still sell nice number of polyps per plug for a fair price. Just search and you'll find them...

BUT, if you want to buy those "VERY SPECIAL ONE POLYP DEALS", please go ahead... Now you know the truth. No problem! I won't hate you either, my friend. :thumbsup:

2 dead horses for this thread!
It is worthy, because we still have the real info about the subject.
:deadhorse::deadhorse1:

Cheers!
Grandis.

 

[sleeri]

Simple solution if you don't like the names and prices, don't buy them. Supply and demand. If enough people don't buy, supply will go up and prices will come down.

 

[Epicreefer]

To some degree I can understand the $50/polyp prices but there are some places that things get carried away. What you really need to look out for are the scetchy companies who claim to be selling grade A corals but there just junk. There are a number out there that import random corals and if they look close they take pics under LEDs or actinic, chop it up into a million pieces and sell them each for what the colony is worth. Unfourtunately in this hobby that's happening a lot more and there isn't much a hobbyist can do but not buy from them. I would only buy named corals from a few select online retailers that basicaly specialize in high end corals as their ONLY business. If they sell random colonies that look like junk and their "name brand" corals look a bit off or lots of blue in the pic, that's probably because there just trying to make a quick buck. If the company has a lot of new things, like new names you've never heard of, and lots of turnover lookout, probably a chop shop. The only people who deserve that $50 a polyp are the hobbyists who bought one a year ago and now have 4 for sale after spending $1k on getting it to grow. There are a few companies that are in the aquaculture business and deserve what they charge but from what I've seen 90% of the companies on the net sell 99% fresh import. At least zoas maintain their color better than LPS. I've seen frags drop from $50 to $10 in a month as they went from beautiful rainbow to basic red in the coral store.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Going to vent a little.


Hey it's your thread and there's nothing wrong with venting my friend.


What is with all these crazy names for zoas?


It started back in 04/05. If you do a search in this forum on "name game", "pimpin", "this is why I really hate names", there are tons of threads to read on this. I even provided many links in one of my other replies. I and many of my reefing buddies have own thousands of polyps which created hundreds of mother colonies. They grew like crazy for us and many others right here as well and gosh, we never knew a single name. Look at the pics and their captions in this link http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2234219 ....no names.

I feel knowing how to keep them alive and thriving via excellent husbandry is more important than knowing it's name. Wouldn't you agree?


Who exactly creates these names and why do people buy/sell them for so much?

Anybody can create a name, some polyps have multiple names........it's the new in thing relative to zoas and palys. It is purported to serve as an identifier. Why do they sell them for so much? Do a search in this forum on "pimpin", skyhigh prices", "price gouging", "profits" and "marketing". It's all there,


i see "colonies" of 8-10 polyps selling for $400 on here?


I use to sell 8 - 10 polyps for about $12 back in 2005, we all did. Do a search on my sales and feedback in the selling forum right here on RC and see for yourself. Then a few guys started calling them rare, gave them cute names, then everyone else followed suit, and now that same $12 frag on a rock, not a plug, will cost you $30 to $ 500 depending how much profit they want to make. The LFS didn't create this, the transhippers didn't cause this........the reefers did. When the LFS, importers/transhippers and wholesellers saw this, they weren't about to lose out on their profits, so they raised their prices as well. This is no secret, and can you blame them? I don't agree, but I don't blame them either as they didn't cause this.

Do a search in this forum on "Orange Envy"" and Envy Orange". I posted a thread I'm sure will drop your jaw. Also, do a search in the forum on "chopshop" or "chopshopping".

Hello Epicreefer, thanks for sharing that, but I believe even $ 50 for a single poylp the diameter of a pencil is ridiculous in my opinion ( no offense ). Not when they use to cost that for a 4" x 4" colony with 50 to 75 polyps a piece of coralline covered live rock. Supply and demand didn't cause that, I would say Sly and the Man caused it. Just my opinion.




There are so many crazy names and i guess i want to know where they come from and how "official" they really are?


They're just made up out of the air. There was a story here I think a while back, where a few frags sat in a store for months, untouched, no one gave them a second glance, cause they didn't have a name. The owner made up a name, and they sold the next day. Trust me, there is nothing offical about it......people just like them to have names. To each his own.


whats to stop me from going to my LFS and buying some colorful zoas for $2 a polyp and the calling them "Danny's Delight" or something stupid like that?


Nothing, that's it, anyone can do it. Again, do a search here on the "name game".


I really dont see how zoas are worth that much, they are basically the weeds of the reef and spread very quickly.


You're right my friend. These claims of supply and demand have been debunked right here in this forum many times over the years as well as all the other excuses given to justify these prices. Do a search in this forum on the word "Greed". Before the names and sky high prices, heck, nobody wanted to keep zoas and palys. When they became a major source for income and names were invented along with misleading claims of rarity, then lineage, then JDW zoas, then everyone wanted them. I, we, were all here and watched it happened. That's just the way it is now



Please help me understand.

There is no understanding at this point. As long as people keep paying those prices...the prices will remain skyhigh. It's the reason I haven't purchased a single coral in over 5 years as the reefer above suggested. I refuse to, and that's how I bring myself to understand it and what I have to do. To each his own and that is why this hobby is so great. We are all free to choose. I hope this helps in some way to explain it. If not, when you have an hour, please read this entire thread, I'm sure it will paint a better picture of understanding and clarity then I did.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1941053


MUCHO REEF

 

[A. Grandis]

+1 ^
If everyone didn't buy the online cartoon deals, the problem would come to an end indeed!!!

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

To some degree I can understand the $50/polyp prices but there are some places that things get carried away. What you really need to look out for are the scetchy companies who claim to be selling grade A corals but there just junk. There are a number out there that import random corals and if they look close they take pics under LEDs or actinic, chop it up into a million pieces and sell them each for what the colony is worth. Unfourtunately in this hobby that's happening a lot more and there isn't much a hobbyist can do but not buy from them. I would only buy named corals from a few select online retailers that basicaly specialize in high end corals as their ONLY business. If they sell random colonies that look like junk and their "name brand" corals look a bit off or lots of blue in the pic, that's probably because there just trying to make a quick buck. If the company has a lot of new things, like new names you've never heard of, and lots of turnover lookout, probably a chop shop. The only people who deserve that $50 a polyp are the hobbyists who bought one a year ago and now have 4 for sale after spending $1k on getting it to grow. There are a few companies that are in the aquaculture business and deserve what they charge but from what I've seen 90% of the companies on the net sell 99% fresh import. At least zoas maintain their color better than LPS. I've seen frags drop from $50 to $10 in a month as they went from beautiful rainbow to basic red in the coral store.

I couldn't believe when I found out about the chopping of fresh imported colonies. Millions of plugs out of those deals!! Easy money! Not fair to the organisms and to the customers. Where is the common sense of the new market?

Grandis.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

This is what the names and skyhigh prices that many welcome has created. Greed and price gouging has increased the severity of chopshopping. Chopping up what is considered an otherwise healthy baseball size colony up into 50 two polyp frags on a Monday and then selling it that Wednesday, all in the name of fast profits. The piece hasn't had time to recover from the stresses of shipping, then fragged, glued and sold all within the same week without giving it proper time to even heal over. I know some don't care if they die the next day, but I do.

I just read a thread here of a new shipment that arrived and all of their frags were dead. This happens everyday of the week with private sales and trades. When fellow reefers chop up zoas and palys prematurely, improperly, repetitively etc, this is what will happen. Five polyps is not a colony, it's a frag. I wish everyone would simply stop fragging your frags and enjoy the hobby minus the need to own everything someone says is new, hot, rare and just released from the ocean, REALLY !!!!

It's not a gripe, it's a concern.............for the polyps and their longevity in captivity.


MUCHO REEF

PS, there's nothing wrong with fragging if done properly, but everyone doesn't know how and when to frag.

 

[danimal1211]

I surely wouldn't mind if we went back to calling them all button polyps . The thing that makes me laugh though is the difference in the names of zoas vs. Those of SPS'. Polyps have these comic book or sinister names like "people eaters", or "utter chaos", while SPS have names like "strawberry fields" or "birds of paradise." Its like someone thinks zoa lovers are heading out to the monster truck rally while the more refined SPS keepers are sitting by the fire sipping on a virgin egg nog.

 

[A. Grandis]

All that happens with the SPS and LPS also.
What a $hame!!!!
:twitch:

Grandis.

 

[megadeth72]

who is still paying those prices? lfs has lots, ebay has lots and the bottom seems to have fallen out of the ebay prices

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I surely wouldn't mind if we went back to calling them all button polyps . The thing that makes me laugh though is the difference in the names of zoas vs. Those of SPS'. Polyps have these comic book or sinister names like "people eaters", or "utter chaos", while SPS have names like "strawberry fields" or "birds of paradise." Its like someone thinks zoa lovers are heading out to the monster truck rally while the more refined SPS keepers are sitting by the fire sipping on a virgin egg nog.

I hear you. The funny thing is, I never stopped calling them that. I have about 5 very close serious zoa keeping buddies around the country. Their tanks are loaded with colonies, not 2 to 5 polyp frags. Their systems are flourishing like crazy, I'm talking nearly every inch of available rock is covered. And you know what, when we talk or text, none of us have ever mentioned a single name, cause we don't know the names and refuse to buy into learning them. It's a waste of serious time when said time can and should be used learning how to care for them and most of all keeping them alive. This forum is for name lovers and non name lovers, that's what makes reefing so great, there's something for everybody.

Mooch

 

[eg8r210]

His point is to let people know the truth about those "new", "rare", "special", "limited edition", etc... Zoas masked with the cartoon names!!!

What truth is that? That you saw these 10 years ago for $ .20 and just cannot believe you gave them away and now they are a rip off? It is unethical to call something rare if it is not but the market will decide the price. The names make it easier for people to know what they are getting as long as the naming is consistent. It is much easier to say the name then try and descibe the polyp.

However all that is solved with the simple statement that if you think the price is too high then walk on by. Getting ****ed off doesn't solve anything and just ruins your day, it doesn't affect the seller one bit.

 

[eg8r210]

The only people who deserve that $50 a polyp are the hobbyists who bought one a year ago and now have 4 for sale after spending $1k on getting it to grow.

How long did it take you to come to these very random numbers? How about someone that wants $60/polyp? Do they need to spend $1200 getting it to grow? I don't understand the "deserve" comment either. The only people that deserve these prices are the people putting up the effort to sell at the price point and successfully making a sale.

I like the cartoon names and I buy them, but I do not buy them at the high retail prices. As Grandis mentioned I like building a relationship with fellow reefers and trading with them first.