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PO'd about Zoas
- Thread starter daninflipflops
- Start date
danimal1211
New member
I really think we as a community need to say cut the crap I'm not gonna buy a frag with less than 10 polyps. Anything less than that just takes way too long to grow out no matter what variety it is.
megadeth72
New member
no thanks, I dont like buying large colonies, I'm fine with 1-5 polyps
The thing about the majority of these frags sold today is this. The overwhelming majority of them will never, ever, ever reach adult/maturity or become mother colonies. Most will fade, wither, suffer BI or fungus and/or die and the owner will never know why. He will then buy them again and again hoping they live and truly think he or she has done something wrong, and most often they haven't. I highly question the integrity of most of these frags sold today. Most are improperly fragged, prematurely fragged and repetively/excessively fragged and this alone will cause them to perish or have continuous issues. It happens everyday right here in this forum and so many many others.
I am going to create my own thread of 10 things you should know along with questions you should ask before every zoa/paly purchase whether it's a public or private seller. If they can't answer those questions, then you are making a grave mistake in buying from them and you should walk away.
MOOCH
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A. Grandis
Active member
LOL!!!
There are many like you.
They get so used to the game that would be like suicide getting out of it.
I do believe you are serious with your post, although I would really prefer and hope to thing it's a joke.
Today's market is a very sad picture.
Grandis.
If I hadn't seen 5 polyp "mini colonies" for sale I would think this was funny.
megadeth72
New member
why would you need more? they grow so fast
Though I agree with you that if you leave the zoas alone they will grow because everyone's tanks support this, wouldn't you agree that this isn't the reason behind single polyp frags being sold today? Is it to spread the wealth so to speak? Why was it common practice to purchase frags with 10 to x polyps for what a single polyp costs or less today?
If this was the case there shouldn't be anything that was classified as "rare" or "LE" because they grow so well. As you stated, they grow fast enough so if anything all color morphs should be common in the hobby therefore easily available and most importantly the price should be lower instead of higher.
With more and more hobbyists growing corals and fragging them there should be a surplus. If you factor in better husbandry practices, equipment, and understanding of their needs this should help further. If so, why are there so many, "they just melted on me one day"?
By this logic, instead of a single polyp frag being sold for $50+ it should be sold for 50 cents. Because this isn't the general situation in the hobby there must be a flaw in the reasoning.
In your opinion why isn't this the situation?
Obviously this has been expanded past the original discussion but it is related.
Thanks.
megadeth72
New member
you speak as if I pay a lot for them
I dont, most are from hobbiests
I dont, most are from hobbiests
A. Grandis
Active member
Point here is to discuss the market, when you pay $$$ for 1-2 polyp plugs.
Once you posted that, most of us thought you would be on the selling side for some reason. We do respect those who are on the selling side, but we also want to express our thought.
It is important to say that not all traders in the market are doing the fortune game, and there are lots of new business just getting into it because it's so normal to see such deals online. Every day that goes by it gets more normal.
In any way, either in the marketing or not, the so called "mini-colonies" should have at least 10 polyps IMO. That would assure a better ability to fight against adaptation challenges and to have better immunization against possible infections.
Also, it would allow us to cut the frag in case of infections due to transportation practices, removing rotten tissue from stressed plugs upon arrival, increasing the possibilities of the frag to be saved in that case.
Larger numbers of polyps per frags do allow more powerful and faster reproduction/ growth abilities than 1 - 2 polyp frags, generally speaking. The more polyps the stronger and more reproductive it will be comparing under same conditions.
When you have a 1 or 2 polyp frag, it will sometimes take so long to begin to show any new polyps that it just perishes after a while andit shrinks and "melt" for lack of energy. PLEASE BACK ME UP ON THAT ONE!!!!
To me, the importance of the 10 polyps minimum per frag is important also towards the common sense in caring for the organisms, not only about $$$. That would be a great restart, after all this non-sense crazy 1 polyp for "$1000.00" deals we see.
It would be wonderful if some company would come up with a rectangular tile frag of minimum 20+ polyps. The more the better in every aspect. For us and for the organisms. It just makes it easier and safer.
Of course that the price would have to be cheaper than they are normally charging nowadays. I think the biggest problem, and what would make the practice almost impossible, is the money issue.
After the market is so crazy like it is now, only a revolution would bring things to a relevant and optimal common sense.
It could be that the revolution needed is starting here!!!
People need to realize that what's going on is not normal, but it is becoming normal because there are those who are sustaining the crazy market.
People: high prices trying to justify "supply/demand" depends mostly on the demand side!!! The demand side really rules the relationship, if you think straight.
Test it: find someone out of the picture and explain the deal.
They'll teach you lots!!!
Grandis.
megadeth72
New member
I think its normal, tyree frags were expensive 15 years ago too
Now there is better selection and more strains availible, we still dont get the stuff japan does
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Now there is better selection and more strains availible, we still dont get the stuff japan does
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
A. Grandis
Active member
Yes, it's normal now.
Tyree's got his name on it.
Perhaps that was the beginning of all this mess!?
Not that he or his name was the problem, but what people did to it.
Well, we don't get almost everything that Japan does. Fishes, corals, zoas...
They have a different market and they really like to spend money for their stuff too.
Grandis.
Tyree's got his name on it.
Perhaps that was the beginning of all this mess!?
Not that he or his name was the problem, but what people did to it.
Well, we don't get almost everything that Japan does. Fishes, corals, zoas...
They have a different market and they really like to spend money for their stuff too.
Grandis.
A. Grandis
Active member
LOL!!! I understand.
I'm getting tired myself.
LOL!!!
:deadhorse1::deadhorse::hammer::wildone:
Grandis.
Wow, with all due respect, every thread in this and every other forum is redundant ( Deja vu ). This is a discussion forum and this is but one of many topics which reefers like to discuss. Whenever it comes up, many want to create heat in hopes of getting it locked. This is a very civil discussion. One can either read it and leave a comment, read it and leave no comment or if one is tired of seeing it or offended, then it might be best not to even click on the thread and just look away. I do it everyday if and when I feel as you do my friend. Either way, please allow us to discuss this topic without being censored by those who don't agree. As is the case with every thread, they are opinions and facts based on those who care about this subject and have been here to watch it transpire.
Supply and demand is an economic term often use to defend and justify the price gouging we are seeing, yet it has been debunked dozens of times both here and many other sites as well. Supply and demand is not applicable as it relates to these skyhigh prices. Supply and demand didn't raise the prices, it was everyday people like you and I who misled an awful lot of newbies with rare this and rare that false claims along with giving them silly names.......and that's how we got here. It's all listed right here in this thread and many others. Supply and demand is not the reason for these prices and lies, it's the excuse used to justify them. I can offer you this and anyone else who wants to read this very informative article. The entire article is a great revelation on much of what we are discussing and seeing and I hope everyone reads it as there are many others just like it online. I ask that you would at least read paragraph 9, if not the entire article.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-02/ac/index.php
Would you like to engage the topic?
MUCHO REEF
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PS. Please click on this link and read post # 88. People simply want to know the truth and surprised when they find out.
http://www.reefcentral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1888199&page=4
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my lfs was selling a zoa rock with 30+ D mauls with 2 heads of the hallucination paly for $300.Another lfs 15 minutes farther was selling the same paly rock for $90.I did not get the $90 rock as it was already sold.I saw some online selling the hallucination paly at $200 a head,if this is not greed then i don't know what is.I p/u this rock for $60
.A name is just a way to ID something but to add a high price tag on it is just plain greed.More power to them if they can get it but it won't be from me
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my lfs was selling a zoa rock with 30+ D mauls with 2 heads of the hallucination paly for $300.Another lfs 15 minutes farther was selling the same paly rock for $90.I did not get the $90 rock as it was already sold.I saw some online selling the hallucination paly at $200 a head,if this is not greed then i don't know what is.I p/u this rock for $60
Wow, shocking, but not surprised, and someone else down the street can buy them for even half of that. Your reply is identical to post # 53 of this thread. Thank you for sharing that as people need to know this.
Lately, I have begun to go look up these names when I see these skyhigh prices and the rare, LE, just discovered, newly released, one of a kind and with someone's name attached to them. People, these polyps have been around for 10 to 15 years. I just saw some polyps for sale on several sites for $ 35 for 3 polyps....my jaw dropped. We use to give these polyps away at every swap, I'm talking 20 polyp frags as they were the most basic ones in every store I have ever visited. I have seen very few polyps that are rare. If someone lives in Hooterville, population 50, then yes, everything they see is gonna be rare to them. Newbies are being hoodwinked and bamboozled into paying these prices by being told, "I'm giving you a deal", "they are LE, one of a kind, ultras, elites, grade A rare" or, "we are selling them now for $ 30% off......and they're still skyhigh. That different line, speck, flake of color is nothing new, the advancement in lighting and the ability to change the actual and literal appearance of a polyp happens everyday that I have been in this hobby for 20 years now. If you gave me some polyps, I can literally change the physical appearance of that polyp with the stresses I can place on it will lighting alone, aka morphing. It has been proven, not by me, but by well known pros in this field. There are many threads on it right here in this very forum, it's nothing new. As long as people keep paying Little Timmy and Peter the Polyp Pimp these prices, nothing will change.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1864014&highlight=color+shift
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1309820&highlight=color+shift
I agree with you my friend, greed has and is destroying this hobby. Thanks for sharing my friend.
MUCHO
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Also read post # 19 in this link below. Again, many good reefers just aren't aware until someone tells them and then shows them. Also a very informative thread to read in full.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2062730&highlight=cherry+bombs+32
