PO'd about Zoas

[eg8r210]

I surely wouldn't mind if we went back to calling them all button polyps . The thing that makes me laugh though is the difference in the names of zoas vs. Those of SPS'. Polyps have these comic book or sinister names like "people eaters", or "utter chaos", while SPS have names like "strawberry fields" or "birds of paradise." Its like someone thinks zoa lovers are heading out to the monster truck rally while the more refined SPS keepers are sitting by the fire sipping on a virgin egg nog.

 

[eg8r210]

This forum is for name lovers and non name lovers, that's what makes reefing so great, there's something for everybody.

I agree however threads like this tend to pit the two sides against each other instead of drawing them together.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

My friend, everyone is just sharing their opinions as is the case with just about every thread here. I don't think or feel that anyone is trying to divide or pit anyone against another. No one is attacking or flaming, so we should allow anyone who has an opinion on this or any other thread here just to share it. It's no big deal either way for or against. The OP posted this thread to share his/her feelings and others are just trying to do the same. He ask, "please help me understand". We can all agree to disagree and still be cool here. Hey, even you and I agree this forum is for everyone, right?


Mucho

 

[A. Grandis]

What truth is that? That you saw these 10 years ago for $ .20 and just cannot believe you gave them away and now they are a rip off? It is unethical to call something rare if it is not but the market will decide the price.

Yes, it is unethical to call something rare if it is not. You've got it. That's one of the truth around it. People need to know about that, don't you think? Thanks for agreeing with me.

The names make it easier for people to know what they are getting as long as the naming is consistent. It is much easier to say the name then try and descibe the polyp.

The cartoon names are like a new generation's way for identification, yes. Does it make it easier to identify? Depend on what you looking for. It is easier to buy and sell for sure. Nothing wrong with that if you look at it that way. I am just referring to that as it was originated: to make easy money.
New names are born every day to show "new morphs" and with that comes the nice price$$$$.

However all that is solved with the simple statement that if you think the price is too high then walk on by. Getting ****ed off doesn't solve anything and just ruins your day, it doesn't affect the seller one bit.

I'm not getting upset about it at all. I don't really pay too much attention nor waste my precious time with those cartoon names anyway. I just think that I would like to know the truth about it if I was a newbie. I hope that with posts like this people could realize that it is a waste of money buying 1 or two polyp deals for a big price tag.

It is much more important to learn how to keep them then knowing cartoon names and having a temporary "collection", like they were objects on little pedestals (plugs). Some of the tanks don't even look like tanks, but boxes with dolls on racks waiting to perish or being sold, unfortunately.

Grandis.

 

[eg8r210]

I hope that with posts like this people could realize that it is a waste of money buying 1 or two polyp deals for a big price tag.

I dont' consider it a waste but maybe not the best initial investment. Buying 1 or 2 polyps probably means you are going to have to wait a long time before there is a nice sized colony and something you can see and enjoy without having to walk right up to the tank. I don't buy a small frag like that unless I just cannot find anyone local that has the polyp and to buy it online would cost a fortune.

Some of the tanks don't even look like tanks, but boxes with dolls on racks waiting to perish or being sold, unfortunately.

LOL, funny analogy but I agree now that I think of it they do appear as you mention. I personally cannot stand to see the frag plug in my tank but there are a few. I have a few "cartoon" named zoas that I have wanted for a very long time but due to their prices/polyp I could not afford 30 or so polyps so I bought a few and I can see the frag plug, yuck.

 

[danimal1211]

I have a few "cartoon" named zoas that I have wanted for a very long time but due to their prices/polyp I could not afford 30 or so polyps so I bought a few and I can see the frag plug, yuck.

This is the large problem with the way Zoas/Palys are sold now days though. It would take a couple years for even the fastest growers to catch up to a colony the size that used to be sold just a few years ago. Rather than having a mother colony that's healthy enough and large enough to clip and make a long term profit, the retailers have split entire colonies into 1-5 polyps frags so much and so often that large colonies very rarely exist anymore. Its about a quick profit. Seems now days everyone thinks they're gonna get all their money they've put into their tanks/livestock back by selling frags. It just doesn't work that way unless you have significant sized colonies that produce enough frags to make a profit.


I don't disagree with common names it does make it more easy to describe which coral you're talking about. But this is how this marketing craze began in the first place. You have to understand those that were around before it all started are a bit bitter about it.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I dont' consider it a waste but maybe not the best initial investment. Buying 1 or 2 polyps probably means you are going to have to wait a long time before there is a nice sized colony and something you can see and enjoy without having to walk right up to the tank. I don't buy a small frag like that unless I just cannot find anyone local that has the polyp and to buy it online would cost a fortune.

LOL, funny analogy but I agree now that I think of it they do appear as you mention. I personally cannot stand to see the frag plug in my tank but there are a few. I have a few "cartoon" named zoas that I have wanted for a very long time but due to their prices/polyp I could not afford 30 or so polyps so I bought a few and I can see the frag plug, yuck.

I think you two agree more than you think.


Mooch

 

[MUCHO REEF]

This is the large problem with the way Zoas/Palys are sold now days though. It would take a couple years for even the fastest growers to catch up to a colony the size that used to be sold just a few years ago. Rather than having a mother colony that's healthy enough and large enough to clip and make a long term profit, the retailers have split entire colonies into 1-5 polyps frags so much and so often that large colonies very rarely exist anymore. Its about a quick profit. Seems now days everyone thinks they're gonna get all their money they've put into their tanks/livestock back by selling frags. It just doesn't work that way unless you have significant sized colonies that produce enough frags to make a profit.


I don't disagree with common names it does make it more easy to describe which coral you're talking about. But this is how this marketing craze began in the first place. You have to understand those that were around before it all started are a bit bitter about it.

danimal1211, in reality, most will never ever reach mature colony size. In fact, most won't grow and many will even perish. They have been improperly, repetitively, prematurely and excessively fragged to death. I have never seen so many threads all over the web regarding they won't open, grow, keep melting, etc etc in all my years in reefing. There's an obivious reason for this. People are chopping off the oral disc, slicing the base, fragging every new polyp in hopes of making their 3 polyp frag grow so they can sell off one polyp to get their money back off an outrageously price polyp or tiny frag. This is not reefing, yet this is the culture which these names and sky high prices has created. Yes, many many newbies didn't and don't know this and I have hundreds of emails and PMs I have received over the years to prove it. They no longer buy into these names, lies and high prices and too have refused to buy them. That's about all you can do is say no.

Yes, you're so correct as many of us have been around here before this mess was created. I however am not bitter at all, I just find it sad that greed/marketing/money/ and lies regarding rarity have dominated the hobby as it relates to zoanthids. Trust me, you are not getting a deal.

I will direct all my comments to the OP as he is the one who ask to be enlightened.



MUCHO REEF
TOTM - August 2003

 

[MUCHO REEF]

some of the more rare zoas you'd be lucky to see 3-4 polyps in a year.. look at chalices some of them selling for a booger sized frag for 1,500

There are very, I mean very few morphs in this hobby which are rare. I was once told by a guy who had been reefing all of 1 year that something he was selling was a limited edition ( LE ) and very rare. Once again, I was able to show him on my PC just how long those polyps had been around with time/date stamped pics on line. I will share the full story later. I explained they had been around and seen regularly in LFS for at least 15 years. He still advertised them as rare. Why? To get, or should I say, fool someone into paying hundreds of dollars for a frag only worth $ 15. :hammer: How sad And we have proven over and over again right here in this forum and many others that there is no such thing as a Limited Edition anything from the ocean. Just another slick marketing plow to get you to pay hundreds for polyps only worth a few dollars.

Regarding the chalice, that price is simply laughable.


Mucho

 

[kichimark]

Ah the name game. This is a rather old topic that has been discussed numerous times :deadhorse1: but I have a new angle from before. I was a proponent on the naming as a sense of identification and still see some point in this today to a certain degree but I noticed something a while back. What was it you wonder? simply too many names for the same zoa/paly. It seems that everyone and their brother are coming up with different names for the purpose of hyping "their" polyp. What is the point of naming if everyone calls them something different.

The other day I was at a local fish store who doesn't really specialize in corals but have a section for them. There you can get bambam for I dunno...a dollar a polyp. Anyway, I picked up a zoa frag that interested me and I only paid 5 bucks (see pic below). I was curious and checked online and guess what...there were 3 different names for this morph. I was not surprised since I noticed this was happening a while back. I have not searched online how much people would sell this frag but I bet if you throw a name on they will charge a lot more than 5 bucks.

As of now the zoa for me will be zoa with yellow center and red/orange skirt and that is that. Gonna glue it on a rock and let it grow. Zoas look much nicer when left alone and grown in mats.

As a few fine folks mentioned earlier, make buddies with local reefers. Do some trades or find things cheap. Soon I am going to frag some tubbs blue (I have thousands and gonna frag the ones growing next to a hammer coral) and sell them dirt cheap and/or depending how new the reefer is give it to them for free. This hobby is one of enjoyment and growing a reef and reefing friends is what it is all about.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Ah the name game. This is a rather old topic that has been discussed numerous times :deadhorse1:

Hello my friend, long time?

but I have a new angle from before. I was a proponent on the naming as a sense of identification and still see some point in this today to a certain degree but I noticed something a while back. What was it you wonder? simply too many names for the same zoa/paly. It seems that everyone and their brother are coming up with different names for the purpose of hyping "their" polyp.


As always, you're hitting the nail square on the head. I have even witnessed people arguing over the name, "it's a jelly bean, no it's a juju bean", in the mean time, I see 3 tiny polyps on a square disc nearly covered in green nuisance algae and cyano. There's no concern for what's about to kill them, yet a debate on who's right about the name. I still don't understand it.

You're right again...create the hype, give it a quick name, then flood it with actinics, shoot it with a macro lens, call it LE, rare or one of a kind and you've just paid the car note, or two.


What is the point of naming if everyone calls them something different.


Great point.


The other day I was at a local fish store who doesn't really specialize in corals but have a section for them. There you can get bambam for I dunno...a dollar a polyp. Anyway, I picked up a zoa frag that interested me and I only paid 5 bucks (see pic below). I was curious and checked online and guess what...there were 3 different names for this morph. I was not surprised since I noticed this was happening a while back. I have not searched online how much people would sell this frag but I bet if you throw a name on they will charge a lot more than 5 bucks.


I have heard that many times as well.

As of now the zoa for me will be zoa with yellow center and red/orange skirt and that is that. Gonna glue it on a rock and let it grow. Zoas look much nicer when left alone and grown in mats.

I would be inclined to agree.


As a few fine folks mentioned earlier, make buddies with local reefers. Do some trades or find things cheap. Soon I am going to frag some tubbs blue (I have thousands and gonna frag the ones growing next to a hammer coral) and sell them dirt cheap and/or depending how new the reefer is give it to them for free. This hobby is one of enjoyment and growing a reef and reefing friends is what it is all about.

That's very big of you my friend. My greatest enjoyment in this hobby has always been giving something away and seeing the smile it creates. :thumbsup:


Mucho

 

[kichimark]

Hi Mooch. Yes, it has been a while. Starting my new job teaching and new hobby (wildlife photography) has taken its toll. Heck I believe it helped my reef since I don't move things around as much haha. Glad to see you are still on and helping folks out with your very thoughtful and truthful insight.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

some of the more rare zoas you'd be lucky to see 3-4 polyps in a year.. look at chalices some of them selling for a booger sized frag for 1,500

I found something I wanted to share with you regarding these claims of rare polyps. I seldom if ever post pictures, but in 2009 I posted one to once again debunk these claims or should I say lies regarding what is rare. Take a look at this link below. I posted a picture in post # 6, look to the bottom of the blue polyps. A few months ago, I saw online someone claiming these were rare and charging 2 arms and a leg and people were paying for them. Now note the date of my post, it was 2009, and believe it or not, I had own hundreds of these polyps at least 2 years before I took this picture. That would make it 2007, and 5 years later, someone, for the sole purpose of greed, is telling the world they are rare. If new reefers don't know the truth, they will believe these lies and give their money away thinking they have something rare, and once again my friend, it isn't. I paid $ 25 for 10 polyps, and that was because they were on a nice size chunk or coralline covered live rock, and this was 5 years ago !!!!!!! Yet someone else paid $ 15 and $ 20 for a single polyp in that same thread.


http://www.reefcentral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1592448


I hope the OP can truly understand now why this happens.


MUCHO

PS, kichimark, that's great man, all the best.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Ah the name game. This is a rather old topic that has been discussed numerous times :deadhorse1: but I have a new angle from before. I was a proponent on the naming as a sense of identification and still see some point in this today to a certain degree but I noticed something a while back. What was it you wonder? simply too many names for the same zoa/paly. It seems that everyone and their brother are coming up with different names for the purpose of hyping "their" polyp. What is the point of naming if everyone calls them something different.

Hello Mark, here's the thread you are speaking of regarding the exact same polyps with multiple made up names. I hope this will also help the OP and many newbies who may not be aware of the game. :wavehand:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2031770

 

[kichimark]

Hello Mark, here's the thread you are speaking of regarding the exact same polyps with multiple made up names. I hope this will also help the OP and many newbies who may not be aware of the game. :wavehand:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2031770

I'm surprised I have not seen that thread before. The OP definitely saw what was going on. The lineage thing was always hilarious to me and Charles brought up some very good points.

 

[kichimark]

brighter colors = $$$$$

To those who wish so. I picked up a few frags of zoas this week since I am making a new extension to the zoa area in my tank. I will post some pics tomorrow of the different zoas that are the same price from a store who does not deal with the name game.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I'm surprised I have not seen that thread before. The OP definitely saw what was going on. The lineage thing was always hilarious to me and Charles brought up some very good points.

Yes, I think the OP posted some very informative stuff and there were a lot of great points made in that thread by Chuck. Hope he's doing ok.

Mucho

 

[MUCHO REEF]

To those who wish so. I picked up a few frags of zoas this week since I am making a new extension to the zoa area in my tank. I will post some pics tomorrow of the different zoas that are the same price from a store who does not deal with the name game.

Just curious, do you know why this LFS doesn't buy into the name game?


MUCHO REEF

 

[kichimark]

Just curious, do you know why this LFS doesn't buy into the name game?


MUCHO REEF

They specialize more in the fish section and sell fish at a great price. I purchased a fathead anthia from them for thirty bucks. Very healthy yet shy fish.

Going to corals, they can not tell the difference between a frogspawn and a hammer. They don't have an online store and are always busy at the shop to surf the net. Here are some frags (since most people here don't buy whole colonies of zoas) I picked up for an extension of the zoa garden. They are on a frag rack that i no longer really use. Prices ranged from 5-10 bucks. I really like the goldish/yellow with red skirts one. The one next to it with the red skirt has an insanely beautiful blue center. My pictures are horrible and at the moment the tank is very blue (4 blue +, 1 aquablue, 1 fiji purple). If it was an online shop they wouldn't sell them so cheap. Especially those orange ones that reminds me of bambams (the one with the dragon eyes I had to frag since it was getting to close to my orange hammer...waiting for replant in extension).

 

[kichimark]

Another thing I want to add for everyone. What is the greatest today will be boring to the hypers tomorrow. Wait a while, get to know some local reefers and you can get some good deals. I bought 2 frags of mohawks for 5 dollars each from a local reefer. I had a huge colony before but lost them when my mother died and i didn't care for the tank. Lost my colonies of utter chaos and space monsters in that mess. Still not going to buy them but trade whenever its time.

Oh...the frag of nightmare with a polyp is one i had to remove from it getting close to my nem...well actually the nem is getting close to it haha. Had to relocate my colony of nightmares but they like the new spot better.