Pohl's Xtra ?

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I dose fuel once or twice a week and haven't seen a difference with that. Think I'm going to try the xtra

The fundamentals of the system are to starve out nutrients, so it will starve algae. No tank will be 100% nutrient free though.

You then feed according to the needs of your specific corals, so which supplement you use depends on the effect you desire and the types of coral you have.

If your actual nutrient levels are higher than you think, then your supplements will feed algae and also may feed cyano, so they won't have the desired effect. This is why so any people fail with it.

You really need to get the nutrient control sorted first. Either by using the basic four, or other methods of your choice. Once you have truly low nutrients and decent lighting ( which also is a major source of energy for corals, don't forget!), you can start feeding your corals manually, to top up their requirements.

Top up feeding can be with fish poop, which is what most use, or if you need more, supplements, this can be cyclops, reef pearl, oyster eggs etc. or other coral food like Coral vitaliser or amino,acids.

If you overdo any of those, your corals will not take up any more, but your algae will!. When your algae can't deal with the excesses, cyano can!....

Some of the kz bottles contain mixtures of things and are good all rounders. Eg Pohl's Xtra contains Amino acids, along with some trace elements. It's a good product to choose if you want to limit the number of products, but if your corals are not starving, it may feed algae. It does add a metallic texture to your coral colour, which I haven't seen any of the other products provide, but if you have dark colours to start with, then adding this may darken them further. Similarly, if you have nice non- zeo colours already, then using this may not provide much benefit- you may or may not notice that nice metallic hue!.

Once you have low nutrients, no nuisance algae and decent colours with HEALTHY corals, you can explore coral pigmentation and subtle hue changes with other kz products. If you try these products without the pre-requisite coral health, your corals will suffer!.

Items such as B balance and Spur2 should be thought of as stripping a layer back.... Or 2 for Spur2 !. If your corals are not pristine, then stripping a layer off may kill them!. If they are, then either of these two will lighten and brighten your corals.

If you don't follow the rules, your corals will suffer. If you use any product and don't notice a difference, think why it could be....don't assume the supplement is at fault, rather its indication.
If you nutrients are higher tan you think, the colour sups have no way of working as your coral already have too many zooxanthellae to mask the colours.

In response to the op, you have decent colours already and your corals dont look starved to me. I'm not sure that Pohl's Xtra will help you. It might make your corals darker!.

IF your corals are all very healthy, then B balance at very low dose to start may be something to consider, but please note, it can be very harsh on sick corals, so use it at your own risk, I have seen some fantastic results with Spur2. Please look up Jan Willem's zeo tank video after dosing Spur2. It's the bet example I have ever seen.

It sounds like Bugger may have been one of the unfortunates, who had a bad run with Zeo..... His posts indicate all of the frustrations failed users have with Zeo products. But universally, it's because they took a shortcut, or didn't follow the rules. It's usually that nutrients are higher or lower than the user thinks....getting the first bit right is critical to success

Mo
 
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I started using it in 04 ... but took some time to learn ...

great explanation Mo :)

99.99% of good looking SPS reefs on here, use some sort of carbon dosing.

Kevin, thanks for sharing your experience with us :)

Edit, so you own canada corals ?

from their site, they use Amino acids LOL
Parameters:
Specific gravity: 1.026 (calibrated refractometer)
Calcium: 420ppm (Salifert)
Alkalinity: 7.5dKH (Hanna Checker)
Magnesium: 1350 (Salifert)
Nitrate: 1ppm (Salifert)
Phosphate: 0.02ppm (Hanna Checker HI 736)
Potassium: 400ppm (Salifert)
Fish: Tangs and clownfish
We use Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt
We feed our fish: Noori, brine shrimp, mysis and pellet food
We feed our corals: Oyster eggs, rotifers and amino acids


Equipment:
Lighting: EcoTech Marine Radion
Flow: EcoTech Marine Vortech and Tunze waveboxes
Skimmer: Vertex Aquaristik Alpha
Reactors: Two Little Fishies Phosban
Water purification: Vertex Deluxe Puratek RO/DI
Dosing: Fauna Marin 4 pump doser (balling light method)
Coral dip: CoralRX Industrial


maybe try to post pics of another store ?
 
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Non zeovit

Sorry, I had to bite...... ZEOVIT !!!.


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:thumbsup:

Mo
 
I have a mixed reef with zoos, sps and a clam. Zoos are doing awesome and sps some are ok and others aren't thriving. Tank doesn't have any algae. Haven't tested phosphates but a Hanna checker should get here next week. I will check the level before dosing xtra and cv. I have a 6 bulb ati dimmable powermodule and two mp40's on my 90. Light is suspended above the tank about 5 inches. I recently started dosing vitamin c for my zoas and they like it. I feed spectrum pellets and rods food. I usually alternate the two each day. I don't run Gfo or carbon but have been vinegar dosing here and there lately but I've backed off since I'm not exactly sure of the phosphate levels but since no algae I don't think the phosphates are high. Sps have lightened especially green slimer and pink Mille
 
You won't harm your corals by dosing those two. You will either notice an increased coloration if they are pale ie nutrient starved, or they will darken more if they are not.....

Be watchful of phosphate tests. They are notoriously difficult to read and can be inaccurate.
Both my hanna meter and checker have read as much as 0.05 different on the same sample water. I try not to use phos kits much anymore. I look at algae levels within the tank and glass.....

Mo
 
try not to use phos kits much anymore. I look at algae levels within the tank and glass.....

Mo

Mo,

When you say you look at algae levels, particularly on the glass; what exactly are you looking at?

Example, on the rocks; with a good variety and amount of grazers, algae can be kept to a minimum; and phosphate can still be too high for SPS.

In my tank, this is the case. The rocks are VERY clean.

However, I use the glass as an indicator; and I am trying to achieve a nutrient level where I only need to wipe the glass with a magnet every 5 days or so. At the moment, I need to wipe perhaps every 3.5 days.

What exactly do you look for? - How long between wipes can your glass go? I know that is rather vague etc, but somewhat of an idea would be helpful.

PS,

I live in London, but never thought to introduce myself to you to perhaps someday visit your amazing reef tank.

Many thanks in advance.
 
Moser, that tank you posted is SICK.

I run partial ZEO on my tank.
- Stones
- Zeo-Bac
- Phols-Xtra

I did notice an increase in color switching over to the zeo-system from biopellets. I haven't been running it for long, only ~ a month now, infact this weekend i'm due for my first stone change.

While I don't have any "scientific" data to add to this discussion on the ZEO products, I will echo the sentiment that there are many, many nice tanks running ZEO.
:deadhorse1:
 
Everybody that was a hobbiest before 2006 dident use zeovit and guess what they had awesome color

Nobody is saying zeovit is the only way to get good looking coral. There are many ways to get the results we want. It is just one way that works for many people. To each their own.
 
Moser, that tank you posted is SICK.

I run partial ZEO on my tank.
- Stones
- Zeo-Bac
- Phols-Xtra

I did notice an increase in color switching over to the zeo-system from biopellets. I haven't been running it for long, only ~ a month now, infact this weekend i'm due for my first stone change.

While I don't have any "scientific" data to add to this discussion on the ZEO products, I will echo the sentiment that there are many, many nice tanks running ZEO.
:deadhorse1:

That tank he posted is Alexander g. He is the godfather of zeovit.


Probably the nicest tank in the world.....IMO
 
Had never seen his tank before, although I do spend some time over on the ZEO forum. Apparently I need to get around the pic forums more...
 
Mo,

When you say you look at algae levels, particularly on the glass; what exactly are you looking at?

Example, on the rocks; with a good variety and amount of grazers, algae can be kept to a minimum; and phosphate can still be too high for SPS.

In my tank, this is the case. The rocks are VERY clean.

However, I use the glass as an indicator; and I am trying to achieve a nutrient level where I only need to wipe the glass with a magnet every 5 days or so. At the moment, I need to wipe perhaps every 3.5 days.

What exactly do you look for? - How long between wipes can your glass go? I know that is rather vague etc, but somewhat of an idea would be helpful.

PS,

I live in London, but never thought to introduce myself to you to perhaps someday visit your amazing reef tank.

Many thanks in advance.

Hi Sahin,

I've seen a lot of your posts. Let me know when you are around the Southwest and you can pop in!.

Phos tests are notoriously hit and miss. If you get a decent kit that reads consistently, you can use it and that's fine. Low levels are always hit and miss, so I would use a phos kit to say tell me if I am below 0.03 or above. That is my cut off.

Beyond that, as tanks mature, most nutrient depots have been depleted. At that stage, as your nutrients build you get a film on your glass and rock. This can be green/ white/ brown or a combination. Bacterial systems have an additional slimey white/ grey film, due to bacterial overdose.

I tend to get a brownish dusting with hard green deposits if left longer. If I drop nutrients very low, it takes a week to get this, but usually I clean the glass every 4-5 days.

I have a smaller tank which is only 12" front back. It runs on led's, but they shine on the glass on both sides. That tank runs the same water, but I have to clean it every 1-2 days..

You really need to keep light away from your front glass to reduce the amount of cleaning.

My rocks eventually get a brownish hairy algae near the pumps. This gets cleaned up by snails, but as it gets longer, I know i need to change my GFO.

I use two signs. Algae build up on my front glass requiring cleaning every 3 days. If left the usual 4-5 days it is obviously dirty glass.

Long brown algae in front of pumps.

Each tank will give slightly different signs and its more difficult to judge on newer tanks. You also eventually hit a routine as your feeding habits stabilise, your nutrient in and out stabiles, so to does your GFO change frequency.

Mo
 
Moser, that tank you posted is SICK.

I run partial ZEO on my tank.
- Stones
- Zeo-Bac
- Phols-Xtra

I did notice an increase in color switching over to the zeo-system from biopellets. I haven't been running it for long, only ~ a month now, infact this weekend i'm due for my first stone change.

While I don't have any "scientific" data to add to this discussion on the ZEO products, I will echo the sentiment that there are many, many nice tanks running ZEO.
:deadhorse1:

That's G. Alexander 's tank. Sadly, he took it down a few months ago.
The point is, Zeo works. So do many other methods. It's down to the user as to whether the tank looks nice, not the method.

To bash a method as snake oil in the face of such strong supportive evidence is not on. By all means question, but don't bash!.

There are similar arguments going on in Europe and UK about another method- Triton method. That is getting an occasional beating too, but there are increasing examples of how well it works also.

I say, just choose your weapon and stick to it!..... They all get good results if used properly!.

Mo
 
Here is the thread of non zeovit users.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1885414
Anybody can buy a bunch of nice corals and maintain them with or without zeovit
Zeovit has proven nothing; it just waved a bunch of nice photos in your face and fooled you into beleiveing. Also when it first can out it tested its product on its consumers and bleached many tanks until they got the formula right.
They do not test anything and have no data on what any of their products do.
 
Now you're having a laugh...... I think you're done.
Unless you have something sensible to say, it's best you leave. You have been shown that so called snake oil works. There is nothing more to discuss.

Before you go, please let me see your tank too. I hope I get a pleasant surprise.....

:wavehand:

Mo
 
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Don't put words in my mouth. What Im saying is its not neccassary

Based on all my discussion with Alexander, here and elsewhere it is not a waste of money if you want to go that route. The issue has always been, form most of us, is that the system does not work as the manufacture claims. Alex does not sell anything, he is just a German reefer, whom I trust 100 %. His tank is astounding. The other issue is do you need such a system to achieve the same and the answer is no but those with less of a "green thumb" may be more successful at reef keeping.

Randy

system since they do not reveal the ingredients in the additives

There is an exact French system where I have all the data on the ingredients on a file. It is a mile long :D I can post it if you want to look at it.
 
Yes zeolites will, pick up ammonia in seawater to a slight degree. However, the claims by Zeovit are from another planet, IMHO and other chem guys . We have had many Zeovit threads here on RC, 100's of post on them :)
 
The fundamentals of the system are to starve out nutrients, so it will starve algae. No tank will be 100% nutrient free though.

You then feed according to the needs of your specific corals, so which supplement you use depends on the effect you desire and the types of coral you have.

If your actual nutrient levels are higher than you think, then your supplements will feed algae and also may feed cyano, so they won't have the desired effect. This is why so any people fail with it.

You really need to get the nutrient control sorted first. Either by using the basic four, or other methods of your choice. Once you have truly low nutrients and decent lighting ( which also is a major source of energy for corals, don't forget!), you can start feeding your corals manually, to top up their requirements.

Top up feeding can be with fish poop, which is what most use, or if you need more, supplements, this can be cyclops, reef pearl, oyster eggs etc. or other coral food like Coral vitaliser or amino,acids.

If you overdo any of those, your corals will not take up any more, but your algae will!. When your algae can't deal with the excesses, cyano can!....

Some of the kz bottles contain mixtures of things and are good all rounders. Eg Pohl's Xtra contains Amino acids, along with some trace elements. It's a good product to choose if you want to limit the number of products, but if your corals are not starving, it may feed algae. It does add a metallic texture to your coral colour, which I haven't seen any of the other products provide, but if you have dark colours to start with, then adding this may darken them further. Similarly, if you have nice non- zeo colours already, then using this may not provide much benefit- you may or may not notice that nice metallic hue!.

Once you have low nutrients, no nuisance algae and decent colours with HEALTHY corals, you can explore coral pigmentation and subtle hue changes with other kz products. If you try these products without the pre-requisite coral health, your corals will suffer!.

Items such as B balance and Spur2 should be thought of as stripping a layer back.... Or 2 for Spur2 !. If your corals are not pristine, then stripping a layer off may kill them!. If they are, then either of these two will lighten and brighten your corals.

If you don't follow the rules, your corals will suffer. If you use any product and don't notice a difference, think why it could be....don't assume the supplement is at fault, rather its indication.
If you nutrients are higher tan you think, the colour sups have no way of working as your coral already have too many zooxanthellae to mask the colours.

In response to the op, you have decent colours already and your corals dont look starved to me. I'm not sure that Pohl's Xtra will help you. It might make your corals darker!.

IF your corals are all very healthy, then B balance at very low dose to start may be something to consider, but please note, it can be very harsh on sick corals, so use it at your own risk, I have seen some fantastic results with Spur2. Please look up Jan Willem's zeo tank video after dosing Spur2. It's the bet example I have ever seen.

It sounds like Bugger may have been one of the unfortunates, who had a bad run with Zeo..... His posts indicate all of the frustrations failed users have with Zeo products. But universally, it's because they took a shortcut, or didn't follow the rules. It's usually that nutrients are higher or lower than the user thinks....getting the first bit right is critical to success

Mo

Very well said
 
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