Possible Pathogen Based Acro Necrosis

IMO it's not an edipemic ( a level of disease above normal in a population) in the hobby but definately an epidemic as far the population of your tank. It's long been argued that RTN is contagious/noncontagious and lots of people, including myself, have experienced RTN that seemed to spread throughout a tank at a fairly rapid pace. I agree that it is most likely a pathogen but it is also likely that environmental factors weaken the coral, at least initially, and allow the pathogen to take over. Everything is just speculation of course at this point.
Chris
 
main thing that concerns me is that via IM and/or PM... i am having more and more people approach me with similar problems.

I know there will always be hobbyists with tank issues. That's just the nature of the beast.

Its just w/ all of the messages coming outta the woodwork lately, I think we really need to be thinking hard about new acquisitions... especially from the wild.

I really hope the problems of the many are unrelated.

For those fellow reef keepers who've sent me messages in confidenitiality, dont worry I wont disclose your issues to others.

I do hope all who are experiencing difficulties will be responsible enough to cease trading/selling to others or at the very least disclose the issues to the recipient.
 
I agree with fishdoc. I've seen it happen many, many times with peoples tanks. RTN can spread very quickly through a tank. With all the advances we have made in the hobby, you don't see it as much as you did in the past. So people experience it as often.

A lot of people have the false sense that SPS, specifically acroporids, are pretty easy to care for as long as you have the tank setup a certain way. And for the most part they are. Still, acroporids are a very fickle coral that can turn south very quickly.

One of the biggest hurdles is that many people do not post about their failures when keeping SPS. So many times it is not until someone makes a big post like kip has done, that all these people who otherwise would have been silent start to open up about some of the real problems that they are having. I've tried to be very honest on the boards about the failures that I have had with my tank (and I've had a bunch) for that very reason. Even someone who is seen as a good reef keeper has problems and makes mistakes. IMO it's being able to learn from the problems that others have that make this forum such a great resource.

Kip, I wish you luck with getting things on track. As I've said, I've been there before, it's very disheartening but almost always the tank comes out better in the end. Sometimes getting there sucks though.
 
I posted at the beginning of the thread with mirror symptoms and took on the role as "control" tank. The update with my tank is that 99% of all TN issues have ceased and my tank is in recovery mode at this time. All frags and the 8 new additions are doing well and encrusting on their plugs. The one change I did make to my system is removed the one suspect DI cartridge leftover from the change I made when this fiasco began for me. In my case I feel my issue was pathogen based, but the pathogen(s) came from tainted DI resin as I also lost 6 fish within 1 week of changing the DI resins, (I just wish I'd made the correlation sooner). Within 24 hrs of removing the suspect DI resin from the system, the tank looked 100% better. Water was clearer and the corals exhibited better PE and coloration. Since my ATO is a basic float system fed directly from my RO/DI and evaporation is in the neighborhood of 4 gpd, it was like a constant IV drip. By no means empirical evidence against the DI resin, removing it made a huge difference in my mind.

JMHO
CAReefer
 
update... at this point ~60% of the frags that underwent the 48hr "community" treatment are lost

wanted to get this out there for anyone considering doxy treatments

while the first doxy treatment of just a few frags was successful... the same treatment with a larger frag load was not. In fact, the cure was worse than the disease.
 
Is it possible whatever pathogen it is was poisonous upon death? Perhaps you nuked them all causing a much more concentrated poisonous enviroment? Maybe your outbreak was much worse or it has to be done in small amounts?

Never used it but just speculating.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10096609#post10096609 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kip
update... at this point ~60% of the frags that underwent the 48hr "community" treatment are lost


ouch. I've never used doxy for more than one coral at a time. So I'm not sure if it is the proximity of many corals that didn't interact well with the treatment or the treatment itself.

Sorry to read that Kip. :(

FWIW while doxy has helped sometimes, I never found it to be a panacea as there were times it did nothing to slow RTN.
 
Ok, im stuck on why people are pm-ing you instead of coming out and giving their versions. I only pm-d you so i didnt take away from your thread but when others chimed in, then i posted my issue. I want to hear the others and what they have. I need comparisons of my own. Maybe shouldnt have bathed the origal ones. Unless they were still rtning. And like above said, maybe in small amounts of coral at a time. Something toxic or maybe they slimed eachother. Who knows.

And pug, you kill me.
fish.gif
Bolt.gif
 
thanks for the sympathy

i am really having a hard time with the future of my tanks at home. the 75g is full of dead/dying frags from the treatment and the display looks like a hurricane went thru it.

after all of these years, it may be time to take a breath of fresh air
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10100014#post10100014 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kip
thanks for the sympathy

i am really having a hard time with the future of my tanks at home. the 75g is full of dead/dying frags from the treatment and the display looks like a hurricane went thru it.

after all of these years, it may be time to take a breath of fresh air
I know exactly how you fill . I had my tank crash about three months a go . I did restart the tank but i still have some problems with MY new SPS.
I give away my 90G FOWLR tank . The 200G is mostly LPS and Soft corals right now i got about ten frags of SPS but they really giving me a hard time.........I don't know may be is time to throw in the towel.
:mad2:
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10095497#post10095497 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JB NY
One of the biggest hurdles is that many people do not post about their failures when keeping SPS. So many times it is not until someone makes a big post like kip has done, that all these people who otherwise would have been silent start to open up about some of the real problems that they are having. I've tried to be very honest on the boards about the failures that I have had with my tank (and I've had a bunch) for that very reason. Even someone who is seen as a good reef keeper has problems and makes mistakes. IMO it's being able to learn from the problems that others have that make this forum such a great resource.


Very good point Joe.

Very sorry to hear about the continued woes Kip:(
I am putting together a presentation on SPS at the moment for my old reef club (MTRC)and will be sure to include this as an example of things that can (and eventually will for most of us) go wrong.

Chris
 
I admit to sending Kip a PM, but I also posted pics towards the beginning of this thread. I returned from a weekend trip, and now every single one of my Monti Caps are now deteriorating as is my purple digi. If I didn't drop my digital camera in the river on my trip, I'd take more pictures. I am almost certain that whatever is affecting my tank is a pathogen of some sort. A few corals have completely succumbed to RTN, while most undergo STN. There are also a few that are 50-50; they have bleached tips, but the polyps that have survived on the same coral have incredible extension. There are still a few corals that show absolutely no signs of stress at all, even at this point.

Kip, do you by chance have any hammer corals in your tank?
 
Ok. Just a thought. I can just about place the time that everything started going downhill when I added a few acro frags to my tank (non-QT'd of course). I moved a few other corals around, and my Heniochus began to decimate a hammer coral a day or so later. I still blame my lack of QT for this, but I didn't know if a hammer coral getting picked apart could have released toxins into the tank. I have done many water changes since, but no change.
 
Maybe not time to take a fresh breath of air but maybe a bath in some fresh water.

Try a planted aquarium with your existing setup it wouldn't take much and if you feel like coming back to a reef tank you can. Or head the softy route for a while. At least you can say you have done what many of us could only wish for. TOTM
 
TOTM was fun and an honor, but never a goal.

It will be hard to completely step away because I've a fairly newly established mixed tank I've set up in the lobby at work.

I just have a really sour taste in my mouth in terms of acro keeping especially in terms of trying to get new things in. I've spent a pretty good chunk of change at several online coral vendors in the last few months and have virtually nothing to show for it. I used to take pride in my success rate with livestock. I was never a person to just buy, buy, buy until i got something to live.

at any rate... this thread will probably soon die for i've nothing more to contribute to it.

once again a big thanks to all that offered suggestions and assisted in this issue i went thru.
 
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