Problems with LiveAquaria livestock

[Toddrtrex]

Over the last 2 years or so my experiences have only been with the DD part of LA -- so take that for what it is worth. I am guessing that I have received about 30 items for them over that time period -- give or take. There have been a total of 3 things that didn't make it, and they were all Long Tentacle Anemones that each had a small hole in their foot. Was credit for it, and finally got one that had about 3 times the normal water -- after a phone discussion with them.

As for winter shipping this year ----

I had ordered a Potter's angel and a zoa rock to be delivered on the Saturday of the AFC/NFC Championship games. In case anyone forgot that was the brutally cold weekend. Needless to say I was a bit worried about this shipment ( and Potter's angels not having the best track record ). Due to me having to go into the hospital (( begged my doc to let me wait until after the shipment came -- he wouldn't let me )) my Dad had to be at my place for the shipment. He called me when it arrived, the first thing he said was that he was shocked how warm the water felt -- by feel the same temp as my tank. The Potter was eating when I got home that Monday, and 3 1/2 months later is still doing great.

So, I guess my point is that there APPEARS to be a quality control issue out of CA., and not for the DD items.

 

[EdKruzel]

Remember to keep this civil and not "a bash this or that thread".

I fully understand being upset with any loss and at any cost, but I'm also smirking at many of the comments and how naive many hobbyists can be. Water quality can drop and not affect current livestock if it happened gradual enough for them to adapt, but try and add a newcomer and you have a dead specimen. Oxygen loss in a tank is a huge contributor to fish loss and can be caused in numerous fashions.

1. An over extended bioload with the addition of more livestock.
2. Addition of large amounts of GAC without first rinsing.
3. Malfunction of a skimmer or overflow.
4. Lights out period with tanks containing macro's or marine plants without adequate surface movement.

I can probably write an additional page with further causes, but these are the most common. When the oxygen is interrupted and depleted just long enough to kill off a few fish (larger first) the rest of the tank (corals and inverts) will remain fine.

Anything shipped will become stressed which diminishes its immune capabilities. Placing a coral or anemone in a tank with other than the same species drops it right into a soup mix of toxins known as aleopathy.

Having a 14 day guarantee is amazing, especially when they can't control the shipment once it leaves their facility, your acclimation process or the quality of the tank you have (size and/or water parameters). Many years ago I had a retail maintenance business on the side and ordered livestock as well. I had a little over 100 customers (ordering livestock) with about 25 regulars. I had trouble keeping up with that small number, and can't even imagine the headaches DF&S must deal with. I did have about a dozen people order once and at least 10 of them reported quite a few losses. I went to each home and checked out their systems and each was poor to say the least.

On a personal note, I'm not a fan of buying much livestock online but only because I'm so picky and need to examine thoroughly everything before I place it in the tank. But when it comes to dry goods, well lets just say I've probably made a car payment or two for Race.

 

[ReefKeepersCorner]

Sorry to hear about you losses. Hopefully that good customer service kicks in and takes care of all the livestock.

 

[broke1]

To start, I am the edited buyer in the first post. I didn't want anything said about my transaction until I had an opportunity to contact and recieve a reply from the seller.

They contacted me back and didn't even hesitate to refund the charges for the fish. Their customer service is still top notch to me which is one of the things I have never heard any complaints about.

This is where I might be making a mistake and not even know it.

1. An over extended bioload with the addition of more livestock.

This would make 12 fish total on a 400 gallon system, I don't feel it's too many but I might be wrong.

2. Addition of large amounts of GAC without first rinsing.

GAC is changed monthly, and rinsed until the water comes out clear.

3. Malfunction of a skimmer or overflow.

The skimmer is working perfectly and should be more than enough to keep up with the system.

4. Lights out period with tanks containing macro's or marine plants without adequate surface movement.

Fuge lights come on when main display and pop tank lights go off. Enough water movement in the fuge to ripple the surface enough to make it impossible to make out anything in there.


Is there anything else you can think of that i should be looking for?

This is an SPS tank so I'm pretty diligent about my parameters, Tey aren't always as perfect as I would like but good enough that my most finicky Acros don't mind.

 

[fijiblue]

Here is my opinion on the situation (and it is not meant to bash LA)...

...what do you expect from a company set up that way! The fish are cheap for a reason...they are being shipped out from a wholesaler, not Live Aquaria themselves - no middle man. If indeed they are using QM, BreadmanMike is right...there is nothing "quality" about them at all, but that is besides the point. Having lived in LA, I made many trips to the wholesalers and came to the realization that this is what they are...a wholesaler...not a shop that takes care of their animals like a LFS. They are there to sell - that's it. Having said that, they are likely not to care what specimens they pick to send out for your order.

I think Live Aquaria is great in having set up this way offers fish at a very attractive price, but keep in mind you are mail ordering fish. DOA's are to be expected just like a store owner expects DOA's on all shipments. Live Aquaria takes care of it's customers when there is an issue and that is extremely commendable Im not trying to be harsh, but maybe if you are looking for a hardier specimen, then maybe you should look towards your LFS who is set up to take care of the animals and acclimate them when they come in Just my 2 cents...

 

[BreadmanMike]

I hope I didn't come across as bashing LA. They are one of my favorite livestock vendors.

Fijiblue-
Do you know where Flying Fish Express got his stuff from back in the day?

 

[SlowCobra]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12260361#post12260361 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EdKruzel
Remember to keep this civil and not "a bash this or that thread".

I fully understand being upset with any loss and at any cost, but I'm also smirking at many of the comments and how naive many hobbyists can be. Water quality can drop and not affect current livestock if it happened gradual enough for them to adapt, but try and add a newcomer and you have a dead specimen. Oxygen loss in a tank is a huge contributor to fish loss and can be caused in numerous fashions.


I can probably write an additional page with further causes, but these are the most common. When the oxygen is interrupted and depleted just long enough to kill off a few fish (larger first) the rest of the tank (corals and inverts) will remain fine.

Anything shipped will become stressed which diminishes its immune capabilities. Placing a coral or anemone in a tank with other than the same species drops it right into a soup mix of toxins known as aleopathy.

Having a 14 day guarantee is amazing, especially when they can't control the shipment once it leaves their facility, your acclimation process or the quality of the tank you have (size and/or water parameters). Many years ago I had a retail maintenance business on the side and ordered livestock as well. I had a little over 100 customers (ordering livestock) with about 25 regulars. I had trouble keeping up with that small number, and can't even imagine the headaches DF&S must deal with. I did have about a dozen people order once and at least 10 of them reported quite a few losses. I went to each home and checked out their systems and each was poor to say the least.

On a personal note, I'm not a fan of buying much livestock online but only because I'm so picky and need to examine thoroughly everything before I place it in the tank. But when it comes to dry goods, well lets just say I've probably made a car payment or two for Race.

I can appreciate your input into the situation however I can assure you I have zero water parameter issues. If water parameter issues were the problem then everyone in this thread, that has suffered livestock losses pertaining to LA, has water quality issues. I doubt that everyone in the Chicagoand area, in this thread anyway, has poor water quality.

1. An over extended bioload with the addition of more livestock.

Adding the 8 Anthias I ordered would have placed my tank in the heavily stocked category, total system volume is about 325 gals. Over 400#'s of live rock and roughly 250#'s of live sand. Adding 8 Anthias would not alter tank parameters overnight to cause half of the Anthias to die. First signs of parameter issues, if there were any due to the livestock addition, should have been apparent with inverts(specifically shrimp) in the tank given they are generally more susceptible to poor water conditions.

3 of the fish purchased went to another house. 1 fish was DOA. Given their size, again I will state that they did not produce enough waste to blow the bioload balance of the tank in less than 48 hrs.

2. Addition of large amounts of GAC without first rinsing.

In my situation, neither tank had GAC running. When it is run it is ALWAYS rinsed into a bucket until it runs clear.

3. Malfunction of a skimmer or overflow.

Skimmer on my tank is emptied every 2-3 days so that it is IMPOSSIBLE to overflow short of a collection cup cracking or the pump flat out breaking and pumping water straight into the collection cup. Something that has not happened.

Firefish tank is emptied every 3-5 days. It is not stored in sump so if it was to overflow it would end up on the floor and not back in the tank.

4. Lights out period with tanks containing macro's or marine plants without adequate surface movement.

My tank is controlled by an AC3. The fuge light is connected to the controller and runs on a reverse light cycle from the tank. Flow through the fuge is about 300gph. I keep it that low to allow sufficient dwell time for proper nutrient export.

 

[Pufferpunk]

What's GAC?

 

[Toddrtrex]

I can never remember what the "G" stands for, but it is activated carbon.

 

[BreadmanMike]

granulated

 

[Toddrtrex]

Well, that just makes too much sense.

Thanks.

 

[pescadero]

Granular Activated Carbon?

Edit: too slow on the draw!

 

[Pufferpunk]

Also, you guys are blaming the losses from the water being cold but there ther's that disease that Pescadero found. 2 different causes?

 

[SlowCobra]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12261462#post12261462 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
Also, you guys are blaming the losses from the water being cold but there ther's that disease that Pescadero found. 2 different causes?

I think the majority of deaths can most likely be blamed on improper packaging for cold weather shipping, unfortunately Pescadero does seem to fall in a separate category. Nevertheless it appears to be an issue affecting more than 1 or 2 people.

 

[pescadero]

In fairness to the vendor, I think its important to give an update to let everyone know that I have finally been reimbursed for the losses that were associated with my order.

the reimbursement took longer than I had thought it would take (18 days from the time of delivery until the time that the refund hit my visa account), but the good news is that I was reimbursed for all of the losses related to the order.

i can't offer an opinion about whether or not there was any problem related to shipping that effected more than one person's order. i only have information related to my order with the vendor. the good news is that the vendor honored their arrive-alive/stay-alive warranty, even though it took longer than i would have liked to have the credits issued.