Prodibio\Zeovit together

[migas_01]

I`m Using Prodibio biodigest and bioptim every 14 days along with a Phosban reactor and media that is also exchanged monthly. However with two more fish added to the tank and hevier feeding ( Nori in the morning and a cube of frozen enriched food every day ) I am starting to have some small hair algae spots despite the low No3 between 2 and 5mg\l with salifert test kit and Po4 001 with hanna cheker.
I increased the biodigest to a weekly regime and continue bioptim every 14 days to try and adjust the system to the new feeding schedule that I think its necessary for the fish welfare.


I am thinking about dosing zeostart 3 to the tank as a carbon source to reduce n and P faster on a daily basis as feeding is done every day.
I would like to keep biodigest as my source for bacteria every 14 days along with bioptim. However the day that bioptim is added I wont dose zeostart 3 as I`m not shure if bioptim has a carbon source in it.

Please let me know your opinion about this. Is this likely to work ?

 

[sabbath]

Every time I look a all those bottles of stuff I get confused. What is in them? What are they really doing? Why not just start dosing vinegar.

 

[disc1]

Once the bacteria are living in the tank, why is there any need to add more bacteria. Do they not come to a steady state population? Or is the prodibio stuff something that can't survive in a tank? I've been a little confused on this one for a while.

 

[tmz]

Sorry,since I don't know what's in either of those products or the bacterial supplement it's hard to comment on compatability, short or longterm. What do the manufacturer's say?

 

[migas_01]

Sorry,since I don't know what's in either of those products or the bacterial supplement it's hard to comment on compatability, short or longterm. What do the manufacturer's say?

From the Prodibio web site:

"BIODIGEST is made up of natural nitrifying, nitrate reducing and facultative bacterial strains selected for their ability to convert ammonia into nitrites, nitrites into nitrates and nitrates into nitrogen.
These bacteria work together with each strain finishing off the work started by the others. Some are capable of biosynthesising nitrate reducing enzymes in aerobic conditions. This enables water to be effectively purified, nitrates and phosphates to be reduced and prevents the spread of filamentous algae.

WHY SHOULD THE PRODUCT BE USED EVERY TWO WEEKS?
BIODIGEST is particularly effective in the first two weeks. The speed at which the bacteria develop differs from one strain to another. Biodigest guarantees optimal purification proportions for a fortnight."

"BIOPTIM contains all the microelements needed for aquarium life (selected amino acids, enzymes, natural vitamins (including riboflavin) and a natural plant surface active agent enabling better membrane absorption by cells). It also provides trace elements.
BIOPTIM is a natural product that affects cellular bioactivators. It dynamises the cellular metabolism of most of the bacteria living in marine water aquariums and reinforces the biological reactions by increasing the number of bacteria and therefore optimising water quality. "

From Korallen-zucht.de web site:

" ZEOstart 3 was developed for reefers who want optimum water parameters in a biological way. It promotes the reproduction of all nitrifying bacteria in the aquarium and is therefore very effective in reducing phosphate and nitrate, nitrite and several inhibitors. The skimmer removes up to 100 % more concentrated adsorbent. Bacteria dependent slime algae dissappears rapidly and a biological balance is re-established.

To start a new tank it shortens the inital phase enormously to about only 14 days.

This product is not only for the initial phase, it should be dosed every day in all tanks. It enhances the metallic colors on Acropora, Montipora, Poccilopora and Stylophora. Soft corals grow faster and open the polyps wider.

Dose directly into the water. Swich off the skimmer briefly if possible. Do not increase dosage of 2 ml per 250 gallons/1000 L daily – please not that it is highly concentrated. Overdosing is dangerous for all fish!"

Whyle doing some reserch I found this reefer on another forum that used this hibrid method aparentely with great results : http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4259

And I just did a quick serch here and: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1256051

 

[bertoni]

I think that text is basically just marketing hype. It's hard to interpret any of it as useful information, IMO.

 

[disc1]

Once the bacteria are living in the tank, why is there any need to add more bacteria. Do they not come to a steady state population? Or is the prodibio stuff something that can't survive in a tank? I've been a little confused on this one for a while.

I want to ask this again. Say you dose the bacteria, and you have media for them to grow on. Then they grow. Why do you need to keep adding them?

 

[bertoni]

I suspect the argument will be that the bacteria you're adding can't compete with natural strains, so they have to be replaced regularly, but that's just a guess.

 

[mrsmithers]

Basically the bacteria consumes the N and P and gets skimmed out or consumed by corals.

 

[mrsmithers]

I don’t use any of the prodibio stuff but from what I have read, the BioPtim is similar to zeostart, they both are introduced/dosed to feed the bacteria (biodigest in your case and zeobac in the zeovit products)

My conclusion is that…
ZeoBac is similar to BioDigest
ZeoStart is similar to BioPtim
ZeoFood is similar to ReefBooster

 

[bawla47]

from what i read about zeovit(current user) is the strains dosed(zeobak,biomate etc) are made up of several colonys of beneficial bacteria that work together. if left undosed the bacteria will begin to monocolonise( not sure if this words right but u get it!)

is this snake oil talk made up by the zeovit guys?
sure could definately be, but im not gonna be one to knock zeovit as there is some inspirational tanks out thtere that run this system

 

[fejer]

google iwan leasser and look at his tank

 

[migas_01]

I don't use any of the prodibio stuff but from what I have read, the BioPtim is similar to zeostart, they both are introduced/dosed to feed the bacteria (biodigest in your case and zeobac in the zeovit products)

My conclusion is that"¦
ZeoBac is similar to BioDigest
ZeoStart is similar to BioPtim
ZeoFood is similar to ReefBooster

I agree with you biodigest is similar to zeobac

Now I think bioptim is a mix of aminoacids, vitamines, trace elements, and possibly a carbon source like sugar. Its only added every 14 days.

Now shugar as a carbon source should not be added on a daily basis as it would be catastrofic to the system. However I did read somewear that ocasinal spikes can be beneficial to the aquarium multiplying bacteria and reducing n and P

Now Zeostart is a carbon souce to be added on a daily basis 2x day.

I think it should help the system deal with feeding better as it will multiply bacteria that reduces n and p on a daily basis which get skimmed out through your protein skimmer.

Do you agree with this?

 

[fejer]

laesser*

 

[migas_01]

...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

if left undosed the bacteria will begin to monocolonise( not sure if this words right but u get it!)


Whether that happens or not, I've yet to hear any good reason to think it undesirable for that to happen.

 

[migas_01]

if left undosed the bacteria will begin to monocolonise( not sure if this words right but u get it!)


Whether that happens or not, I've yet to hear any good reason to think it undesirable for that to happen.

Randy, do you think bioptim and zeostart are the same thing ( carbon source for bacteria ) ?

The dosing regime of the two products is so different that makes me think otherwise! Also when you dose vodka, run biopellets, use zeostart, etc you see imediately an increase in skimmate production. With bioptim you dont get this reaction.

Also do you think when P04 reaches undetectable values the constant use of GFO becomes a problem when using these probiotic products as they need to use some P04 in their metabolic process in nutrient export? (sorry if my explanation is very limited)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have no idea what any of these products are in reality. Even products that claim to contain bacteria do not really say what bacteria, then some go on to list things like "enzymes" which has almost no meaning. A chunk of dead fish is filled with enzymes.

Also do you think when P04 reaches undetectable values the constant use of GFO becomes a problem when using these probiotic products as they need to use some P04 in their metabolic process in nutrient export? (sorry if my explanation is very limited)


It may be possible to drive phosphate too low, but whether in reality that is any more of a problem with bacterial methods plus GFO than with GFO alone, I do not know. I dose vinegar and use GFO and certainly my phosphate is not likely too low and I do not worry that it will become so, since I get plenty of algae growth on the glass, etc.

 

[bawla47]

directly from the zeovit guide lol.

Zeobak
This liquid solution contains several bacterial strains. The added microorganisms can be
used as a food source by the corals. ZEObac consists of different bacterial strains that
form a chain for nutrient reduction. An interruption of this chain leads to a disturbance
and the accumulation of unwanted substances. For this reason, renewed dosing of the
bacterial solution is recommended. Interruption in dosing for a long period of time will
inevitably lead to a so-called monoculture. The added microorganisms work in principle
as a chain reaction, which reduces substances step by step until the skimmer is able to
permanently remove it from the tank.


but randy i agree with you in general, i think half this stuff marketed is rebadged substances that are partially tweaked( zeostart 2 smells just like vinegar!) every company has some marketing jargle that sounds fancy to lead you to believe something else.

 

[recife111]