Pukani Rock leacing PO4 like mad

Gangous said:
How on earth do u guys know that it's the rock leaching po4 not something else?
Click to expand...

Other than putting rock into a clean container with RO/DI or fresh salt mix (yes we all know almost all salt mixes have trace amounts of phoshates) and having signficant phosphates "appear" in 24 hours? ;)

My rock that is a mess is the BRS tonga branch btw. I want to re-cure it outside of the tank.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Gangous
How on earth do u guys know that it's the rock leaching po4 not something else?
Other than putting rock into a clean container with RO/DI water and having phosphates "appear" in 24 hours? ;)

You don't unless you specifically test for it. PO4 leaching seems to be the most common issue though. When you place the rock in water bacteria go to work and o organic residue can breakdown . With fresh water some of the rock surface may dissolve away contributing some otherwise encapsulated PO4 and other stuff stashed in the calcium carbonate too.

To thoroughly clean a rock: a bleach bath will destroy organics and an acid bath will dissolve the top layer taking what ever might be stuck there like PO4 or copper if the rock was previously exposed to it.
 
RokleM said:
Same here.

http://naturalchemistry.com/get_fil...lish+MSDS/Phosfree+-+English+MSDS+-+Aug10.pdf
Lanthanum chloride 10099-58-8 7 - 13
Lanthanum sulfate 10099-60-2 1 - 5

http://www.seaklear.com/sites/default/files/HSI_MSDS-SEAKLEAR_Phosphate_Remover(2)[1].pdf
Proprietary Lanthanum salt derivative 35 "“ 65 YES
All other components are non-hazardous. 35 "“ 65 NO
Click to expand...

I use the phosfree with a diatom filter as it's really cheap. Though I get the phosfree and not the phosfree+. Not sure what the difference is between the two.
 
So it appears the seaklear is 5x more concentrated.

Seeing as people were using 5mL to 300g, I should be using 25mL to 300g? My container has about 30 gallons of water, so I will try 2.5mL.

When using this in a brute can should I drip it? How often should I dose it?
 
RokleM said:
Same here.

http://naturalchemistry.com/get_fil...lish+MSDS/Phosfree+-+English+MSDS+-+Aug10.pdf
Lanthanum chloride 10099-58-8 7 - 13
Lanthanum sulfate 10099-60-2 1 - 5

http://www.seaklear.com/sites/default/files/HSI_MSDS-SEAKLEAR_Phosphate_Remover(2)[1].pdf
Proprietary Lanthanum salt derivative 35 – 65 YES
All other components are non-hazardous. 35 – 65 NO
Click to expand...



DustinB said:
So it appears the seaklear is 5x more concentrated.

Seeing as people were using 5mL to 300g, I should be using 25mL to 300g? My container has about 30 gallons of water, so I will try 2.5mL.

When using this in a brute can should I drip it? How often should I dose it?
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's safe or not, just posting what I found on the sheets. Lanthanum chloride seems normal where Lanthanum sulfate is only referenced in a few spots on the forum, without completely clear answers as far as I can tell. I also was told by the lady at the store how it wouldn't precipitate out like seaklear would, so I'm not sure if that's a good thing either. I was hoping to mix it in a bucket with dry rock and let it run for a period with 100% water changes in the middle. If it doesn't precipitate out and is meant to stick to a pool skimmer, what happens to it in this case? Sitting on the surface of the rock? On the bucket? How do we ensure it's OUT before adding it to the tank?
 
Yeah, that would be an important factor. Anyone have any idea on the phosfree product before I open this $30 bottle?
 
I would hope that a good rinse would remove the precipitate, but that might not be true. I can't think of any very good way of testing that theory, unfortunately.
 
Any thoughts on the Lanthanum sulfate? It's always possible the other one has it too, but you can't really tell with the lack of disclosure.
 
Installed dry rock as well on my new setup in March 2010 and still fighting hair algae problems a year later. No t a major issue, but very frustrating since I practice weekly 10-15% WC, use GFO and change monthly, rinse frozen foods, etc.

I cycled the rock for two weeks with saltwater, but wish I took my time. I had to switch out my old 180 to the new 180 within one day, so I did not have the luxury to cycle the new setup.

IMHO, dry rock is the way to go if you have the proper time to cycle it. Adding live rock is too risky with the introduction of unwanted pests, etc. Red bed, AEFW......NO WAY.....I rather deal with dry rock hair algae issue all day long over pests!

HTH
 
I have pukani rock that I cured before placed it in my tank my po4 still high .I'm not fighting hair algae but red slime anyone else?I just started gfo /carbon.
 
Either of those approaches can work. The lanthanum chloride approach might be faster. What animals are in the tank currently?
 
I have about 300lbs of pukani and tonga branch dry rock in my 300G display. I have been cooking the rock in the tank for about 3 months now. The tank has fully cycled but PO4 was over 1.2ppm!!! I have no specimens in the tank and no lighting so have had no issues with algae blooms. I haver done two dosings of lanthanum over the past few days and dropped the PO$ from 1.2 to .9 then agian from .9 down to .6.

Very pleased with the results. Mixed 5ml of lanthanum with 1 liter of RODI and dosed on a slow drip for several hours thru 10 micron filter sock. Went thru 3 filter socks as they plug quickly with the precipitate but had no issues with precipitate or cloudiness in the water column. Plan to continue dosing until I can get it down to a manageable level for GFO to be introduced.
 
Question

I am going through the same thing. Cant the same thing be achieved with just 100% water changes daily with fresh ro/di? (thats what i've been doing) I under stand this would not be practical with a lot of rock. All my rock fits in a 5gal bucket

as lanthanum just captures phosphate thats free in the water?
 
Yes, I believe it could be done with water changes over a period of time but that's a lot of water vs a few drops of lanthanum. Also, not sure if the lanthanum doesn't bind some PO4 up on the rock surface.
 
I think the water change approach should work. Tossing some lanthanum chloride into the bucket a few time times a day might speed the process, but I'd choose whichever approach seemed easiest. :)
 
I've been up and running now for about 3 months and have had virtually no algae or PO4 issues... A minor outbreak of a hair-like algae (it was like individual strings spaced apart) that died as quick as it showed up.

Until last weekend I was running GFO and Cheto also. I'm not running GFO this week to see where the numbers come out.

I highly recommend trying the lanthanum drip if nothing else to shorten the time it takes... I've heard of it taking months with just the water change method
 
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