quarantine tank really necessary?

[ca1ore]

Ok....In my opinion you should definately qt. I lost a couple of expensive fish before I learned this lesson. You don't realize how much they need this valuable "down time" until you see the difference.
Now, based off of what you told me you are still cycling your display tank. This means you should not use water or media from there because of ammonia and nitrite. If I was in your position, I would go to the reef store and ask if you could soak a media bag in their established water for a few days. I say reef store because they would not put copper in their tanks unlike for instance petco. If this is not an option, then the I would play the dreaded patience game.
The 7.5 gal would do for a qt tank. I use the simple fluval hang on the back filter from petco that comes with media bags. No artificial light is needed although I would recommend keepin it in a well lit room.
These fish are usually plucked from the ocean and sold to a wholesale vendor who ships them to stores across the nation and then kept in small display tanks with their own breed, which is not a happy time. �� When I consider buying a fish these days I think of it as more of a rescue mission for them. They went from a big old ocean to that pet store and now they need to be pampered after two weeks in a nice calm qt tank with nothing to worry about but eating and pooping they are ready for pretty much anything!

Agree with the sentiment, but a few 'half truths'. Soaking some media in a mature tank for a few days isn't going to cut it. You need to do it for a few weeks. Absent access to properly seeded media, I'd suggest following wooden_reefer's approach to cycling a QT. Keeping a fish in QT for two weeks is also insufficient. Particularly if a fish came from a store running low levels of copper in their systems, diseases can be masked for longer than that. I'd recommend 4 weeks at a minimum, with 8-12 preferred. Also gives more time to really fatten them up.

 

[Retromagnolia]

Agree with the sentiment, but a few 'half truths'. Soaking some media in a mature tank for a few days isn't going to cut it. You need to do it for a few weeks. Absent access to properly seeded media, I'd suggest following wooden_reefer's approach to cycling a QT. Keeping a fish in QT for two weeks is also insufficient. Particularly if a fish came from a store running low levels of copper in their systems, diseases can be masked for longer than that. I'd recommend 4 weeks at a minimum, with 8-12 preferred. Also gives more time to really fatten them up.

This method sounds more rock solid. It would certainly guarantee the health of the fish. The methods I've mentioned have worked for me in the past with good results, but there's always a better way to do things in this hobby, right? I agree with wooden_reefer's approach but if it sounds too in depth for a beginner then consider my method the "at least" approach.

 

[moneymm]

thanks, should i just fill it with the water from my display tank?

also, do you think i can run this QT in my uninsulated garage? in the winter months it will get like 50 degrees in there and 80 in summer, obviously i would put heater in tank, but i just dont know if that type of conditions is wise...

im really not sure where else i could put the QT, i know my wife certainly doesnt want it anywhere...

If i were to get a smaller like 7.5 gallon tank, ( ihave aobut 16 inches wide) i think it would fit under the display tank in the cabinet, is that ok, not to have any natural light and to be enclosed like that? theres a big circle hole in the back of the cabinet, so there is some air circulation

thanks for all the advice on here. im soaking it all in. any thoughts on the garage vs the enclosed cabinet for the location of the QT

 

[DDon]

thanks, should i just fill it with the water from my display tank?

also, do you think i can run this QT in my uninsulated garage? in the winter months it will get like 50 degrees in there and 80 in summer, obviously i would put heater in tank, but i just dont know if that type of conditions is wise...

im really not sure where else i could put the QT, i know my wife certainly doesnt want it anywhere...

If i were to get a smaller like 7.5 gallon tank, ( ihave aobut 16 inches wide) i think it would fit under the display tank in the cabinet, is that ok, not to have any natural light and to be enclosed like that? theres a big circle hole in the back of the cabinet, so there is some air circulation

Filling it with water from the display really doesn't help as the bacteria that break down ammonia and nitrite are mostly colonized on surfaces such as the sponges, live rock etc. For a QT I use a bare bottom tank (no sand or rock), PVC pieces for hiding places, a heater and a hang on back filter. The filter would have your media where the majority of the bacteria is. You will need to cycle this with an ammonia source just like your display tank unless you are able to acquire cycled media from someone. There just aren't any shortcuts.

Not sure about having the QT in an uninsulated garage, it may be very difficult to maintain a stable temperature.
If you are doing small fish one at a time, a 7.5 gallon should work, just make sure you maintain good, consistent water quality. I don't see why you couldn't have it in your cabinet as long as it doesn't get too warm there and you have airflow. add a small light for observation and feeding.

As I read through the thread I can see where it can be overwhelming but there is lots of very good info from some very experienced people.
The reason I promote quarantining of all fish is because of my personal experience. I trusted being told fish were quarantined, skipped it myself and ending up with a bad ich outbreak in my display. The headache of trying to pull everything from a 240 gal tank and treating a large number of fish then housing them all while the tank sat fishless for 72 days made we want to beat my head against the wall. My house looked like a fish store with all the tanks scattered around. In the long run it is so much easier and less stressful to do it right from the beginning.

 

[murdock84]

A good read from one of the stickies!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1207733

 

[inetmug]

It is all about your tolerance for risk. A QT tank is simple to set up. it does not have to a permanent space and maintenance taking endeavor.

Just a mechanical HOB or bubble filter, a bubbler if doing meds and or a small water movement pump, no sand, no rock, some cheap PVC for shelter, no expensive salt, no dosing, no lights, just water changes every few days to keep ammonia down due to feeding and no biological. A 20G tank like that can do 1-4 fish easy at a time depending on size. If I QT fish, I am also ready to supply Cuprimine and Prazipro, so I would never want a biological setup that could get contaminated. Mine are in the garage, ready to go when needed, which are 1-2 times/year when I collect.

Bring it up when you need it, clean it real good, especially if using Cuprimine, and let it sit when you don't. Easy Peasy.

However, the only way I would ever violate this rule is if I got it from a truly trusted source.... like someone like snorvich offered you a fish from his DT. I think you could trust that source.

Moves are stressful, so if you get a really good source, like a buds tank that has been known to be disease free for years, I would consider it as a QT tank in itself, and skip the double move stress. But that is just me.

Anything from a LFS, or the open water, gets QT.

 

[tmz]

If i buy a fish from a reputable local store and they have had it for more than 4 weeks, do i still need a quarantine tank?

Yes.

This is a brief descritoion of my methods for acclimation ,quarantine and treatment:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2185929&highlight=fish+acclimation+and+quarantine

 

[moneymm]

thanks tmz, but i think that is alittle out of my league. Perhaps on my next tank 5 years from now. for now I will stick with the one QT tank.

I still have a question, if this is not a permanant setup, and just a place to put new fish in for 4 weeks, or to move a sick fish too, i think i can get away with storing it in my shed, and pulling it out and setting it up a tray table in my office next to my tank. my only issue is that if its not permantantly setup, than how to put safe water in it when i need it? if i take water from my DT, isnt that water going to be tainted in a scenario where a fish gets sick?

 

[tmz]

The water from the dt will have organic materials in it and little to no bacteria to help the cycle. The bacteria involved colonize surfaces. Using tank water in a tank without an active biofilter brings in material that will degrade and potentially spike ammonia. I use newly mixed salt water aerated overnight.

Material seeded in your display such as used filter sponges , floss etc or even a bowl of sand will bring in ammonia oxidizing bacteria that have colonized the surfaces if you don't have time to let the qt establish it's own biofilter and aren't keeping seeded material separately. Treatments in the qt tank should take care of any pathogens that tag along.

Actually the tank transfer method is relatively easy and all but eliminates ammonia concerns ;some of the side discussions make it look harder than it is.

Keeping the qt tank too cold will slow the life cycle of parasites ;the treatment process might take longer.

 

[wooden_reefer]

thanks tmz, but i think that is alittle out of my league. Perhaps on my next tank 5 years from now. for now I will stick with the one QT tank.

I still have a question, if this is not a permanant setup, and just a place to put new fish in for 4 weeks, or to move a sick fish too, i think i can get away with storing it in my shed, and pulling it out and setting it up a tray table in my office next to my tank. my only issue is that if its not permantantly setup, than how to put safe water in it when i need it? if i take water from my DT, isnt that water going to be tainted in a scenario where a fish gets sick?

A QT session should last longer than 4 weeks.

As long as you have enough nitrification bacteria active and standing by, a functional QT tank is only one-hour away.

You can store compact cycled medium in confined space.

If a 5 gal bucket or rectangular plastic container still takes up too much space, you can put the sacks of cycled medium in topperware half-submerged, with a few small holes on the lid, and feed with a source of ammonia occasionally once every 3 weeks, and keep salinity reasonable, 1.015-1.030 by adding fresh water occasionally.

 

[moneymm]

thanks so much.

ok, to get this QT rolling i would just pull out the 10g tank pour in some new saltwater(NOT FROM DT), a pvc elbow, run heater, filter with some cycled medium?

and by cycled medium, you mean what exactly?

i can store this 5gal bucket in my garage that goes from 45 to 85 degrees right?

 

[tmz]

someone like snorvich offered you a fish from his DT:wavehand:

Put me on the list Steve. I'm still going to tank transfer and qt any gifts you care to give,even though it's very unlikely necessary. As you know the
process with gentle capture is not at all harmful . :fish2:

 

[wooden_reefer]

The simplest way to cycle medium for small operation (say QTing two 3-inch fish) is to first stuff the nylon with crushed coral (well stretched to almost breaking and double layer) or have a DIY sponge ready, then just use a HOB power box. Use old DT water as the bacteria seed (or other suitable source of bacteria seed). Add ammonia to about 3 ppm numerous times, at least on days 1 and 10 and 17. After 4-5 weeks the medium will be cycled.

You can use bottled ammonia. Or you can get 3-ppm ammonia from one finely chopped small shrimp for every 25 gals of water.

For bigger bioload during QT, you can use a powerhead and cycle in a 5-gal bucket, fill medium to about two inches thick at the bottom, and bag the medium after cycling. The roundness of the bucket allows smooth circulation with a rather small powerhead, I find. Add ammonia often when using a small volume of water to cycle.

 

[mzdanows]

Yes and yes!!! Always quarantine even if u trust the store. If you are constantly adding fish on a consistent basis I would def keep a quarantine running . Tangs and other fish like that can carry undetectable organisms that only a quarantine can irradiate

 

[pREEFERED]

First, my medium for biological filtration in QT is not rock. Rock generally is too bulking and does not have the greatest surface area per unit apparant volume. Live rock is too expensive and wasteful for QT. Remember all you care about for the nitrogen cycle is nitrification, not denitrification, for QT application.

My medium for QT is either DIY sponge-like matter (if I don't want calcerous matters) or crushed coral (if calcerous material is OK) stuffed into very well stretched out nylon, two to three layers, into sacks the size of quite large oranges. If the nylon is not stretched out it will be too restrictive.

This type of medium is cycled very well in a separate container with many pulses of ammonia weeks before QT.

When the QT session is done, I place the sacks of medium in a container just a few gallons in volume and use a small powerhead. I feed the bacteria with a rather strong pulse of ammonia about once 2-3 weeks. A container with a lid with a few holes is best to cut down on evaporation. I mark a line to fill fresh water to when I feed with ammonia.

Be sure to rinse the medium with QT water first before use in QT if ammonia has been recently applied.

i used raw shrimp as my source of ammonia cycling my DT, would you suggest the same for the QT?

 

[moneymm]

The simplest way to cycle medium for small operation (say QTing two 3-inch fish) is to first stuff the nylon with crushed coral (well stretched to almost breaking and double layer) or have a DIY sponge ready, then just use a HOB power box. Use old DT water as the bacteria seed (or other suitable source of bacteria seed). Add ammonia to about 3 ppm numerous times, at least on days 1 and 10 and 17. After 4-5 weeks the medium will be cycled.

You can use bottled ammonia. Or you can get 3-ppm ammonia from one finely chopped small shrimp for every 25 gals of water.

so in order to setup my QT tank i need 4-5 weeks before the tank is cycled properly?

my DT has been running for 2 weeks already, if i have to setup QT tank wait 4 weeks, and then QT my first fish, I am looking at 8-9 weeks before i can add my fist fish? and thats 10-11 weeks from when i first setup the DT.

i hope this isnt the case, i am trying to learn patience, but i feel like it will be alot easier once my first fish is swimming around in my DT.

 

[kurt_n]

so in order to setup my QT tank i need 4-5 weeks before the tank is cycled properly?

my DT has been running for 2 weeks already, if i have to setup QT tank wait 4 weeks, and then QT my first fish, I am looking at 8-9 weeks before i can add my fist fish? and thats 10-11 weeks from when i first setup the DT.

i hope this isnt the case, i am trying to learn patience, but i feel like it will be alot easier once my first fish is swimming around in my DT.

Nope... that's the case if you decide to cycle the QT. Sorry to be the bearer of news you didn't want to hear.

It won't be easier if that fish had ich in your display tank, and then you have to treat it - wait for it... in a QT - plus let your display tank go fishless for umpteen weeks to clear out the ich.

 

[moneymm]

what if i finish the cycle of the DT (lets say it takes 2 more weeks) and then use that water in the brand new QT with a brand new fillter? Is that QT then ready for a pair of clowns? or Is that no good b/c the medium in the QT hasnt been cycled?

sorry, im quite new to this as you can tell.

 

[wooden_reefer]

i used raw shrimp as my source of ammonia cycling my DT, would you suggest the same for the QT?

Finely chopped shrimp is good for cycling medium for QT. One small shrimp completely decomposes in 25 gals of water is about 3 ppm ammonia, applied several times during the cycle is good.

Shrimp blended to milk in a blender will give a sharper pulse, when a test of how fast ammonia is processed is the aim.

Bottled ammonia with no additives is also good.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Nope... that's the case if you decide to cycle the QT. Sorry to be the bearer of news you didn't want to hear.

It won't be easier if that fish had ich in your display tank, and then you have to treat it - wait for it... in a QT - plus let your display tank go fishless for umpteen weeks to clear out the ich.

Having ich infestation in reef DT is generally a calamity, if one has no contingency plan. One really has to accept this. This is the price for not committing to eradication of ich, with rigor and determination.

When ich as happened in reef DT, one has to consider two things.

1. treat fish actively to eradicate ich

2. allowing DT to fallow for 10-12 weeks, while you treat fish separately in QT at the same time (or just the first six weeks and then wait for DT to fallow for the other six weeks.)

All this time one has to combat ammonia in QT if one does not have nitrification bacteria.

Generally, it is not a good idea to attempt to eradicate ich in one stage if there is ammonia problem.

Cycle robustly ASAP so that ammonia problem is limited to about 4 weeks.

You can also use half-cycled medium if there is great time pressure. As soon as nitrite has peaked but has not dropped, you can rinse the medium and use it. This is because slowly generating nitrite is not quite harmful. Ammonia is very much more toxic than nitrite.

I am not talking about 30 ppm nitrite in the cycling water, but nitrite slowly generated, 0.5 ppm nitrite say. You dump the water you cycle the medium with.