QUARANTINE YOUR FIRST FISH! Why?>>>

[A.Astore]

Because frequently if there are no external symptoms of ich they don't die. They can live a long time with ich if they aren't showing visible signs. So I would add my infected fish to my DT unknowingly, it's still living just fine, so then I add my newly QT'd fish which gets it.

This can happen, It has happened to people. I really so no point in quarantining the first fish if you can dose the tank they are in.

And this very thing is why people suggest TTM or treating even when no symptoms are present with copper. If you take a whole 12 days out of your life to do TTM and treat prazipro do you know what the result is? Yeah didn't think you would.



To those reading this and wanting to know what to look for here is my suggestion:

Do tank transfer because then you are very unlikely to have a fish infected fish that is not showing symptoms yet harboring it put into your DT.

Include two doses of Prazi to remove flukes as well as other internal parasites.

If at this point you can simply wait no longer you at least have made it so you don't have some of the most common issues going in on your first fish. Do not cross contaminate equipment and be diligent on the times the transfers occur, very simple.

I would HIGHLY suggest those looking for intelligent practice to ignore this thought that if you can't see it in the DT you wouldn't have seen it in QT so that makes everything hunky-dory. There are steps that many well seasoned people on here follow to greatly reduce the headache of introducing disease into the tank and I promise you, they will share them with you. Do yourself a favor and look into tank transfer method and once you take the time to read the sticky you will understand how this benefits you to take the time to do it (I promise it is MUCH less time and effort than keeping your tank fallow after you add your second, third, forth fish for 72 days due to the ICH finally showing its horrible face!).

Sk8r is trying to help you avoid being the one that posts "HELP! I have ICH on 10 of my fish out of nowhere" seeking a cure that can be done in the DT with no negative to its use. Take the time to look through the different forums and you will begin to see why this post was originally put up.

Some things will lurk without noticeable markers so taking the time to understand not only what the physical signs are but also how you can effectively treat the issue with the least amount of stress to the fish can help to remove the "what if it is there with no symptom."

 

[Fishmas]

Ever notice how many fish meds and test kits the lfs stocks? You can spend more on these items then the fish that brought the ick.

Makes me wonder what incentive the lfs has to do anything to contain fish diseases. They always share water supplies over many tanks

 

[rjjr1963]

I'm about 4 weeks away from buying my first fish and I'm more frustrated than ever.

QT no QT. TTM or no TTM. Copper or no copper.

Is there anyway to ensure a fish does not have ich.

 

[A.Astore]

I'm about 4 weeks away from buying my first fish and I'm more frustrated than ever.

QT no QT. TTM or no TTM. Copper or no copper.

Is there anyway to ensure a fish does not have ich.

There is no 100% way to know your fish does not have it. I would HIGHLY suggest you follow some type of QT procedure. A little effort in the beginning can pay off in the long run. One thing to keep in mind is, a lot of providers run low levels of copper in their system which masks symptoms so it is almost impossible to walk in a store and say that fish is in perfect health.

You need to weigh the different approaches of QT. Decide if you want to be proactive or reactive and from there decide if you want to medicate or go more natural with TTM (which I would still suggest PraziPro to get rid of flukes etc). A lot of people go with proactive for many reasons but one is once a fish is infected they are already going into a treatment at a disadvantage compared to proactive approach.

 

[rjjr1963]

There is no 100% way to know your fish does not have it. I would HIGHLY suggest you follow some type of QT procedure. A little effort in the beginning can pay off in the long run. One thing to keep in mind is, a lot of providers run low levels of copper in their system which masks symptoms so it is almost impossible to walk in a store and say that fish is in perfect health.

You need to weigh the different approaches of QT. Decide if you want to be proactive or reactive and from there decide if you want to medicate or go more natural with TTM (which I would still suggest PraziPro to get rid of flukes etc). A lot of people go with proactive for many reasons but one is once a fish is infected they are already going into a treatment at a disadvantage compared to proactive approach.

Will the TTM eradicate ich from a fish that has no outward signs?

 

[A.Astore]

In theory, yes. It plays on out running the ICH life cycle. The key though is making sure you do not cross-contaminate your water. You have to clean the tank switched from and then let it air dry before you fill it for the next flip (so you need to clean it as soon as the flip happens. The other important thing is you absolutely cannot let it go past the 72 hour mark before the flip or you will need to start over. I generally start it about noon (when the FedEx person gets here) so I am not needing to get up at 3 am towards the end to flip them.

There is a great sticky on TTM as well as the ICH cycle that will help you understand exactly why it works. It is a million times better than doing the observation approach because of the fact some fish simply show no signs yet host it; thus, fish get to the display and boom you have all your other fish showing signs of ICH.

Obviously there is not room for error with TTM, but there truly is not room for error in any of the QT methods that provide a much higher chance of not introducing disease/parasite into the system. I was hesitant to try this approach because I thought it would result in a huge stress increase to the fish but I always just set the tanks up exactly the same as far as where everything is and the fish never seem to mind.

Regardless of which QT you go with no one is going to give you a hassle because everyone will just be happy that you ARE putting them through QT, some will suggest other methods but they will not look down on you for your choice.

I would definitely read through the TTM sticky though, a lot of good info!

 

[rjjr1963]

In theory, yes. It plays on out running the ICH life cycle. The key though is making sure you do not cross-contaminate your water. You have to clean the tank switched from and then let it air dry before you fill it for the next flip (so you need to clean it as soon as the flip happens. The other important thing is you absolutely cannot let it go past the 72 hour mark before the flip or you will need to start over. I generally start it about noon (when the FedEx person gets here) so I am not needing to get up at 3 am towards the end to flip them.

There is a great sticky on TTM as well as the ICH cycle that will help you understand exactly why it works. It is a million times better than doing the observation approach because of the fact some fish simply show no signs yet host it; thus, fish get to the display and boom you have all your other fish showing signs of ICH.

Obviously there is not room for error with TTM, but there truly is not room for error in any of the QT methods that provide a much higher chance of not introducing disease/parasite into the system. I was hesitant to try this approach because I thought it would result in a huge stress increase to the fish but I always just set the tanks up exactly the same as far as where everything is and the fish never seem to mind.

Regardless of which QT you go with no one is going to give you a hassle because everyone will just be happy that you ARE putting them through QT, some will suggest other methods but they will not look down on you for your choice.

I would definitely read through the TTM sticky though, a lot of good info!

Thanks. I've been reading a lot of those threads and I think I've decided what to do. I do have one question though, how do you transfer the fish from the old tank to the new tank without contaminating the new tank. The net is bound to take some of the old water into the new tank isn't it? Or is there a different way to transfer the fish that I'm not aware of?

 

[homer1475]

Never use a net, your hands, or better yet a clear lexan colander works great. With the clear colander you can sneak right up on them and they usually never see it. Most times they'll swim right in on their own.

Yes you will transfer some water, but typically ich cyst's will fall to the bottom of the tank.

I've done TTM on all 5 of my fish, and all made it, and don't have ich.

 

[A.Astore]

The colander is probably the best option because then you are not trying to drain water from a container. It goes through the water pretty easily as well. Generally after the first transfer though mine let up on me and don't fight as much. That is the other benefit of having smaller tanks you are transferring between as well, less water for them to get away in. Now, trying to catch them in the display tank once they hit it, I wouldn't even want to try!

 

[rjjr1963]

How big of tanks do I need for the TTM. My first fish will be pretty small, less than 2". Is 5 gallons enough for 72hrs?

 

[Dmorty217]

How big of tanks do I need for the TTM. My first fish will be pretty small, less than 2". Is 5 gallons enough for 72hrs?

I would get 10g tanks the price is about the same as a 5g

 

[leviburns89]

I only plan on having 3 fish in my tank.

2 clowns, and MAYBE 1 goby.

Can I just do a super slow acclimation?

I don't want to set up a QT, to use it once. I've invested 3 months into just curing and cycling rock. Couldn't I just be very very picky about my choice of fish?

Basically get savvy with my lfs, and take their cream of the crop?

 

[rjjr1963]

You can do anything you want. I don't think you'll get many people to say it's a wise thing to do. You've already invested three months why would you want to jeopardize all that work just to get a fish in there fast?

 

[A.Astore]

I only plan on having 3 fish in my tank.

2 clowns, and MAYBE 1 goby.

Can I just do a super slow acclimation?

I don't want to set up a QT, to use it once. I've invested 3 months into just curing and cycling rock. Couldn't I just be very very picky about my choice of fish?

Basically get savvy with my lfs, and take their cream of the crop?

It is your tank but do you REALLY want to take the three months you just invested only to have to sit out for almost 3 more months with no fish in your display because you ended up with ICH? Trusting your LFS is like trusting McDonalds to give you the healthiest lunch possible (nothing against McDonalds). Yep, they might give you the healthiest meal they offer, but does that make it healthy?

You make your choices and are the one that has to deal with the outcome. If you want to risk putting fish in your tank without QTing no one is stopping you from doing it; however, regardless of your LFS there will be a fish that is sold with disease and/or parasites. Keep in mind that you might pick the healthiest fish in the store but more often than not it is sharing the same water as the dying fish in the next tank over.

I think back to looking at a fishless tank and cannot imagine not QTing and inflicting that on myself again when something is so simple to do. Had you had your QT running while your tank was getting ready you could have had a fish waiting to go in once the tank was ready.

To each his own but I would think all you would need to do is look through the disease forum and the new to the hobby forum to see how many people trust their provider only to succumb to something entering their system and it being a nightmare.

And how big is your tank? Putting three fish in at once will be a major shift in bioload especially for a smaller tank. You don't need it to be a tank either. You can use a 5 gallon bucket with a heater and bubbler, or a 13 qt tote, or a brute. It does not have to be pretty, it just is to be a point at which you can make sure you have the healthiest fish possible.

 

[MadCnty]

We always dipped our "new" stock when I worked at a LFS, and I plan on doing the same in my new nano...

 

[gone fishin]

We always dipped our "new" stock when I worked at a LFS, and I plan on doing the same in my new nano...

Out of curiosity what are you going to dip the fish in and what do you hope to accomplish from the dip?

 

[johnike]

Out of curiosity what are you going to dip the fish in and what do you hope to accomplish from the dip?

Cool ranch?


I know Tony, I know...

 

[gone fishin]

:lolspin: Maybe there will be some ginger as well

 

[snorvich]

It's 4 weeks for qt.

Five weeks minimum.

 

[MadCnty]

Out of curiosity what are you going to dip the fish in and what do you hope to accomplish from the dip?

We dipped them in FW with copper... We lost a few (very few) but it kept our tanks parasite free... I DO NOT recommend anyone doing this... It is something that I have used and have had very good results with... So please take this with a grain of salt...