Quarantining a Powder Brown Tank. Medicate or no?

Fountainhead

Fountainhead

New member
I brought home a nice-looking Powder Brown Tang yesterday, and acclimated him into a fully-cycled 40 gallon Q tank. The tank contains one large hunk of live rock that I removed from the main tank a month ago since it didn't fit in wth the aquascaping.

The LFS had been holding him at 1.15, and I had the Q tank at the same. I acclimated him for an hour or so for PH and temp. He looks great, and has eaten sprulina (flake), prime reef (flake), and nori since he's been here. I'm going to lower the salinity to 1.10 over the next 3 or 4 days.

I've read that Powder Browns are very susceptible to Ich and other parasites. In the abscence of any symptoms, do you think it'd be necessary (or wise) to pre-emptively medicate him at all in quarantine, beyond the hyposalinity? There is the one hunk of live rock in there, but I have no intention of ever moving it back to the main tank. Personally, I'd prefer to just leave him be without additional medication, but I'm paranoid after reading about how prone they are to parasites. I really want this guy to have every chance. Medicate or no?
 
A piece of LR in a "Q" tank is a bad idea. Calcium based object will absorb medications, therefore if you do medicate (which I don't recommend as of now) it wouldn't help.

Only medicate a sick fish and only when the disease or parasite is properly identified.

I'd get rid of the rock and add a clay pot or large PVC elbow as cover.
Monitor the water quality and conduct appropriate water changes to keep it pristine.

Good Luck,
Ed
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8077884#post8077884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EdKruzel
I'd get rid of the rock and add a clay pot or large PVC elbow as cover.
Click to expand...
There is a large PVC elbow in there already. Your point about the LR absorbing medication is well taken. But say I don't need to medicate, is there then any reason to remove the rock? He seems to like it.
 
I too just (well, about two weeks ago) got a Powder Brown. He's currently in my "Pre-Q Holding Tank" since my QT is full at the moment. However, I do plan to medicate with Cupramine (in lieu of hypo) once he gets in there.

My reasons are as follows: Hypo won't do squat with Velvet, and having just lost most of my fish to that parasite, I'm determined to not go through that again. That said, I had a couple fish survive that never showed symptoms. Like ich, all the experts told me that you can have fish build up an immunity to the parasite, but still carry it so that new fish can get it, or they could even get it at a later date. So, it then stands to reason that I could conveivably have a Powder Brown with an immunity to velvet but still carrying it, and it could get into my tank that way. So...Cupramine it is.

For what its worth, the only symptom my current QT stock (Yellow Tang, Niger Trigger, Purple Tang, PJ Cardinal, all fairly small) is showing to the Cupramine is that they're always hungry, which has to be a good thing.

jds
 
Medicating and LR don't mix and that was my main point, leaving it in can have positive benefits such as for grazing and some bio assistance; on the other hand having anything like rock can contain the kind of unwanted pest your hoping to ensure your new fish doesn't have.

My recommendation would be to keep it in the tank for a few weeks monitoring for any illness or parasite while keeping it well fed.
No meds, no hypo, if it remains healthy than put it in the main tank.

Ed
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8078772#post8078772 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EdKruzel
My recommendation would be to keep it in the tank for a few weeks monitoring for any illness or parasite while keeping it well fed. No meds, no hypo, if it remains healthy than put it in the main tank.
Click to expand...
Well that makes good sense. He looks good, plump, and eating. No need to mess with the situation. I'll just leave him be and not introduce unnecessary measures.
 
The hyposalinity treatment is going to wreck that liverock. Plus, killing the crustaceans, worms, etc. on the liverock with the hyposalinity treatment could produce toxic levels of ammonia.

Acanthurus species are one of those groups of fish that I treat prophylactically. They are almost always infected with ich and also velvet in a good number of cases. That is why I use copper (Cupramine).
 
Steven - You make a good point about the low salinity causing die-off on the rock and possibly fouling the environment. I'm going to pull the rock out. I'm still not sure about prophylactically medicating the fish though. Is there a downside to using copper in the Q tank?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8080820#post8080820 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fountainhead
Is there a downside to using copper in the Q tank?
Click to expand...
No, not really. There is a theory that tangs don't respond well to copper and that it might cause MHLLE, but that is just an unproven theory. I have treated a number of tangs with copper with no noticeable effects.
 
OK Thanks. One more question about eventually acclimating the fish to the display, which is at 1.025. I'm planning on watching him in Q for a minimum of 4 weeks, and if I see no issues then I plan on beginning regular water changes in the Q tank using water from the display. Small ones at first, then increasingly larger. The goal is to eventually match the water in the Q tank to that of the display so I can merely move him over.

Does that seem reasonable? How long do you think I should take to bring the Q tank from say, 1.010 to 1.025? A week? Longer?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8081097#post8081097 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steven Pro
A week seems reasonable to adjust from hyposalinity, but do not use copper with hyposalinity.
Click to expand...
After doing some reading, I'm leaning away from using copper unless I see cause for it. The fish looks good right now, and I don't want to inadvertently poison the poor guy. I have cupramine on hand (never had occasion to use it though) if I see symptoms in the future.

I've been lucky with my fish so far. Other than a pair of clowns lost to brook when I first started, I've had no losses from disease. I'd like to keep it that way.
 
For what its worth, for anyone reading this who does decide to go the copper route and gets Cupramine along with the Copper Multi-test kit...CHECK YOUR REFERENCE SAMPLE! I don't know what's going on, but my test was showing no copper in my tank. I almost overdosed, but checked the reference...no copper there either, according to the test. I borrowed a friend's test kit...same result. I looked on the Seachem forum...it seems to be a disturbingly common trend right now. I have a new test on its way to me, so I will check that one as soon as I get it...but in the mean time, be careful out there!

jds
 
bureau13 has some good points and so does Steven Pro. I have seen enough "healthy" looking fish being infected with ich or velvet and then spreading it to the rest while never showing any symptoms that I proactively treat ALL fish in Cupramine. Some may not agree and that is fine. None of my angels, tangs, clowns, etc. has ever shown any sideaffects from Cupramine.

One thing I caution on the Cupramine is the test kit they sell. I have had too many issues with the test kits. Even to the point of the reference showing copper, but the test kit not showing copper. Been back and forth with Seachem and there are long threads about it. I don't use their test kit anymore and only use the Red Sea Copper test kit.
 
Thanks to all for your opinions. I guess there's no one right answer. Anyway, I thought I post a picture of the guy. He's definitely the best eater I've ever had right off the bat. There's nothing this thing won't eat. I guess that's a good thing.

pbrown.jpg
 
That's a beautibul fish and wish I've room to put one in but just have to wait till next year when I get a bigger tank.

Good luck with your neew addition. :)
 
Steve and I have conversed on several occasions; I respect him and agree with 90% of his advice, but he knows (as we've argued this in the past) I do not believe copper should ever be used.

I rate copper a mere step below using cyanide; copper is toxic and furthermore can effect and kill the microbes within the intestinal track of tang species leading to starvation.

Some key elements in this hobby are understanding proper husbandry techniques, diet, compatibility and proper container size for all livestock kept.
Since following these rules I have not lost a single fish to disease or parasite.
My losses over the last decade can be explained mainly by equipment failure (darn rio pumps melting in the tank).

Steve,
I hope to be returning to the Pa area later this year (permanent transfer) so we can debate in person; it will also be nice to see Anthony as opposed to seeing my phone bills after our lengthy conversations.

Take care all...
Ed
 
Interesting that you mention the issue with tangs. I've heard a lot of folks sort of say "I heard copper can be harmful to tangs" but in the last thread I saw discussing it, no one could find any evidence or origin for that save a sort of off-the-cuff hypothesis by someone. You've stated some specifics about its effect...I'm wondering if you have seen evidence of this yourself or if you've seen studies indicating this to be true...I myself have not.

jds
 
I have seen a few studies on this topic, but more-so have witnessed a large percentage of tangs wither and die after full and recommended dosages of copper.
Back in the day the explanation was that (all guess work) the ich was too much and the treatment was too late.

I do recall sitting with Albert Thiel when he lived in New Mexico while he discussed the effects of copper being more toxic to the fish than to the parasite.
Copper works as an irritant removing the parasite and breaking the life cycle as opposed to just killing it and having it fall from the fish.

There are too many better cures (to include natural ones) than for me to risk using a toxic material.

Ed
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
Setting up 10g quarantine tank
Replies
9
Views
140
Dr. Reef
Dr. Reef
M
help with new dracula goby
Replies
5
Views
387
leebca
L
D
Coral beauty Sick - how do i treat
Replies
3
Views
1K
leebca
L
BigEZ77
How Many Days To Run UV When Adding A New Fish?
Replies
3
Views
535
leebca
L
lindaronstadt
Need Advice on Quarantine Duration for Sick Fish:
Replies
5
Views
663
T Diddy
T Diddy
Back
Top