Quarentine Help. I'm Killing too many fish

NickinMS

NickinMS

New member
I would like to think of myself as a responsible reef keeper. I quarentine my fish per this article:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/quarantining-marine-fish-made-simple

and I loose 75% of the fish i buy before they get out of quarentine. Some starve because I can't get them to eat. Some die because of disease.

I bought a flame back angel from my local fish store Friday. I know his tanks are infected, but the fish looked healthy and was eating. I put him in quarintine and within 48 hours he had obvious signs of ich so I started treating him with Chloroquine Phosphate. (80 mg/gal) Monday he had signs of a bacterial infection, so I also started treating him with Seachem Kanaplex.

This morning he was dead, I believe from the bacterial infection.

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Taahirs said:
Don't buy from that lfs
Click to expand...

Only one option. I ocassionally get him to order fish and I take them straight from the bag (they never touch his system) but my success rate does not drastically improve.

Do you see similar success/failure rates with fish?
 
I would buy from a different vendor. Are you sure your QT is not contaminated? Some fish just don't ship well and also in this hobby some fish just died on us for no apparent reason.
 
That mortality rate is very high. While there is always the odd fish that doesn't acclimate well and dies suddenly, you should be seeing better success rates if you are using a QT. Are you cleaning and sterilizing your QT after each fish "graduates?" I always start with a clean QT, especially when a fish dies in quarantine. Describe your QT protocol in detail and perhaps we can make some recommendations.

Agree with not purchasing from that LFS if they do not carry healthy livestock. I've had great success with LiveAquaria, but understand that not everyone wants to buy livestock online.
 
follow the link above for my QT method. I clean the QT tank between fish and use a sponge filter that I keep in my sump, so no need to ghost feed the QT. I will clean the sponge filter, let it dry, and then put it in the sump for at least a week before I buy another fish. I'm not slamming my LFS. He does a good job for the most part. There are so many fish going through his system I'm sure it's tough to keep it parasite free.

Thanks for the feed back. I'm going to try an online vender and see if I see any difference.
 
if you do decide to try an online vendor, be very careful with your acclimation procedure. see if the vendor can tell you what salinity the fish will be shipped in. match that with your qt. when the fish arrives, as long as bag salinity and qt salinity match, simply float the bag for 20 minutes, dip the fish out and put him straight into the qt.

if the salinity in the bag doesn't match your qt, adjust it until it does, float the fish and in he goes. during this time, DO NOT OPEN the bag.

almost all of my fish have come from live aquaria/diver's den. i have followed this procedure and not suffered a single loss.

good luck!
 
NickinMS said:
II quarentine my fish per this article:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/quarantining-marine-fish-made-simple

and I loose 75% of the fish i buy before they get out of quarentine. Some starve because I can't get them to eat. Some die because of disease.
Click to expand...

That's the old school poisoning of all new fish with copper and see who survives the torture...

NickinMS said:
II bought a flame back angel from my local fish store Friday. I know his tanks are infected, but the fish looked healthy and was eating. I put him in quarintine and within 48 hours he had obvious signs of ich so I started treating him with Chloroquine Phosphate. (80 mg/gal) Monday he had signs of a bacterial infection, so I also started treating him with Seachem Kanaplex.

This morning he was dead, I believe from the bacterial infection.
Click to expand...

I suggest to stop buying fish from heavily infected systems. Ich is a rather small problem and easily dealt with (TTM, Hypo, ...), but velvet, brook and bacterial infections can take a fish out before you even know he is sick.
That's why I would always do a formalin dip on all new fish before they even go into QT. This will at least lower the risk of brook and velvet.
 
ThRoewer said:
That's the old school poisoning of all new fish with copper and see who survives the torture...



I suggest to stop buying fish from heavily infected systems. Ich is a rather small problem and easily dealt with (TTM, Hypo, ...), but velvet, brook and bacterial infections can take a fish out before you even know he is sick.
That's why I would always do a formalin dip on all new fish before they even go into QT. This will at least lower the risk of brook and velvet.
Click to expand...

I agree. The article quoted by the OP is not a good plan. Using CP to treat or prevent ich as indicated in the article is also not a good plan as the back end of the ich life cycle is highly variable.
 
IMO copper is a thing of the dark ages of Cryptocaryon treatment and only still widely in use because it is in almost all books. It is also still widely used at commercial fish farms because the FDA has no objections against its use on food fish.
Though for ornamental fish we have far better tools today.

CP, while a good thing to have at hand against velvet, is not a good universal medication:
- 1. its concentration in the water can't be measured (unless you want to spend a few thousands on the necessary equipment)
- 2. it is a deadly poison for at least two fish families: Syngnathidae (all) and Labridae (some, if not all)
- 3. a lot of other fish seem to have problems with long term exposure

Any ich treatment should incorporate some form of transfer to eliminate preexisting cysts as those are pretty much unaffected by anything fish can survive.
Even those treatments that prevent encystment (like hyposalinity) can't kill already existing cysts.
The alternative would be treating as long as the excystment may take (= at a minimum 72 days, but likely longer)

So TTM is the best course of action that gets your fish clean in the shortest time.
If you want to be extra extra sure you can combine it with hyposalinity or even CP (with fish that can handle it)

Once it makes it into a reef tank with inverts it becomes difficult to reliably eradicate it - I definitely have doubts that 72 days is truly the maximum period between encystment and excystment for all Cryptocaryon strains.
 
NickinMS said:
follow the link above for my QT method. I clean the QT tank between fish and use a sponge filter that I keep in my sump, so no need to ghost feed the QT. I will clean the sponge filter, let it dry, and then put it in the sump for at least a week before I buy another fish. I'm not slamming my LFS. He does a good job for the most part. There are so many fish going through his system I'm sure it's tough to keep it parasite free.

Thanks for the feed back. I'm going to try an online vender and see if I see any difference.
Click to expand...

Are you reusing the sponge filter? Or are you saying you clean a new sponge filter and then put it in the sump? i hope your are not reusing the sponge as now your dt may be infected.
 
mitchrapp said:
Are you reusing the sponge filter? Or are you saying you clean a new sponge filter and then put it in the sump? i hope your are not reusing the sponge as now your dt may be infected.
Click to expand...

I soak the sponge in Hydrogen Peroxide for a day or so, let it dry, and then put it back in the sump. There are no signs of any infection in my DT.
 
I would not reuse the sponge. They are cheap - buy a bunch of new ones. It's not worth the risk of contaminating your DT and/or recontaminating your QT. Do not let anything from the QT touch your DT, no matter how well you think you cleaned it, especially something like a sponge. It may be moot now since your DT may be contaminated.
 
I'd consider not buying fish from that LFS. Nothing against the store, but if you're buying from an infected system, then you're probably putting an infected fish into your qt.

I'll echo live aquaria. Pretty solid company.

If you want to continue ordering fish through your LFS, examine the process carefully. If at all possible, see if you can pick it up from the airport after the plane lands. The less time a fish is in a box and/or sitting on a palette getting hot or cold, the better.
 
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