oneradtek202
Pitcher Hill Reef Society
so i think i already know the answer, but just want to verify. i add my alk to a high flow area but it precipitates and clumps up in the water column. now that is due to low magnesium levels correct?
quick dumb question
- Thread starter oneradtek202
- Start date
Going buy some of the pics Ive seen of your tank, probably safe to assume you ruled out high Ca+2 causing this?
As you noted above lower Mg level has a negative effect on alk.
You may be adding too much Alk at once , spiking ph in the process. What are you using for alk?How much are you dosing at one time? What is your ph? What is your alkalinity? Calcium? Magnesium?Any changes in PO4 levels lately?
Magnesium discourages precipitation of calcium carbonate. The magnesium takes the place of a calcium ion in the calcium carbonate crystal, essentially stopping it's growth thus slowing precipitation.
Magnesium discourages precipitation of calcium carbonate. The magnesium takes the place of a calcium ion in the calcium carbonate crystal, essentially stopping it's growth thus slowing precipitation.
Conesus_Kid
Premium Member
Are you mixing it with RO water or just sprinkling the powder into the aquarium? Make sure you're dissolving it in water and adding a little bit at a time (rather than dumping it in all at once).
-tmc,hi.
While I understand and agree with the first paragraph,why question P04? I guess I dont see how that could be relevant.(i.e.- feeding fish alters the parameter?
Last paragraph,"Mg discourages Caco3 precipitation" ect.. wouldn't that only be the case when Ca is low and Mg high?
I maybe entirely wrong here and perhaps Im misinterpreting as well but it would seem a serious ionic imbalance between the trio,Ca very low for Mg to come into play like that.
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oneradtek202
Pitcher Hill Reef Society
BRS 2 part alk, i dose around 200ml a day. and i dose at night to prevent the spike. i have a HUGE sps load and should probably be using a ca reactor but this has been working well. i was just wondering what the precip might be from. i mix it in ro/di first.
Conesus_Kid
Premium Member
That's quite a large dose, and is probably why it's precipitating. Can you break it up into several smaller doses throughout the course of the day?
oneradtek202
Pitcher Hill Reef Society
ca-420
alk-8.5
alk-8.5
oneradtek202
Pitcher Hill Reef Society
yea thats what im thinking, kinda a pain in the butt, but ill try doing 100ml of ca and alk twice a day
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
Mg is what
Brandon- it sounds like it's time you start baking up some baking soda
First, PO4 discourages precipitation by taking the place of a calcium ion in a forming calcium carbonate crystal much like magnesium does. This is why when orthophosphate is higher than 0.10 ppm to 0.25ppm and up it harms stony corals by making it harder for them to lay out skeletal mass. So a drop in PO4 with all things being equal will lead to a loss of alkalinity via increased abiotic and biotic precipitation.
Second , lower mag means less is available to join the calcium carbonate crystal
in place ofcalcium.. So higher mag means less a biotic precipitation even if calcium is high but probably more so if calcium is low. High calcium can play a role in keeping alk as high as you might like too. As does ph.Natural seawater magnesium is around 1280ppm. FWIW, I run it at around 1450ppm shich is more a function ofthe salt I use (Coralife) than a plan. But 1400ppm plus workdks well for me.
If you choose to use baking soda you may want to use it unbaked( bicarbonate HCO3) if your ph is high. It will not raise ph as baked( carbonate CO3) will and as a consequence it will be less likely to precipitate since the water will hold less alkalinity in solution at higher ph.. It's worth noting that the proportion of bicarbonate to carbonate in natural sea water is 100ppm bicarbonate HCO3 to 20ppm carbonate CO3. So by adding only baked baking soda you are adding CO3 carbonate which sucks up H+ protons as it balances of to natural proportions with bi carbonate HCO3 raisng ph in the process.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
somehow I was under the impression you were using B-ionic. My bad. Sorry.
Just one quick derailment here,hope its ok.
First, PO4 discourages precipitation by taking the place of a calcium ion in a forming calcium carbonate crystal much like magnesium does. This is why when orthophosphate is higher than 0.10 ppm to 0.25ppm and up it harms stony corals by making it harder for them to lay out skeletal mass. So a drop in PO4 with all things being equal will lead to a loss of alkalinity via increased abiotic and biotic precipitation.>>>
Ok,It makes more sense now.I was aware of phosphates ability to inhibit /interfere with calcification but never occured to me a drop in alk could bare witness or better yet backup PO4 hobby grade test kits.Very clever........also-and I hate to ask, but, would that take into account zooxanthellaes ability to remove phosphate from the site of calcification,I guess im asking how .10-.25ppm orthophosphate is considered harmful and not actually benefitial to its host?
Second , lower mag means less is available to join the calcium carbonate crystal in place ofcalcium.. So higher mag means less a biotic precipitation even if calcium is high but probably more so if calcium is low.
<<< High calcium can play a role in keeping alk as high as you might like too.>>>?
I think this is a typo?you mean Mg,correct? If not I really got to spend some time in the chemistry archives.:reading:
Thanks for your insight and taking the time to discuss them.
oneradtek202
Pitcher Hill Reef Society
ya the good ole BRS 2 part is my best friend, and my wallets lol
Hi, does the BRS 2 part incorporate Mg into the mix? Just asking for future reference,at some point my limewater additions are most likely not going to be practical.
One other question, have you ever tested or dosed Mg and if so in what form?(i.e. -Mgcl, epsonsalts,ect)
thanks ,
Just one quick derailment here,hope its ok.
First, PO4 discourages precipitation by taking the place of a calcium ion in a forming calcium carbonate crystal much like magnesium does. This is why when orthophosphate is higher than 0.10 ppm to 0.25ppm and up it harms stony corals by making it harder for them to lay out skeletal mass. So a drop in PO4 with all things being equal will lead to a loss of alkalinity via increased abiotic and biotic precipitation.>>>
Ok,It makes more sense now.I was aware of phosphates ability to inhibit /interfere with calcification but never occured to me a drop in alk could bare witness or better yet backup PO4 hobby grade test kits.Very clever........also-and I hate to ask, but, would that take into account zooxanthellaes ability to remove phosphate from the site of calcification,I guess im asking how .10-.25ppm orthophosphate is considered harmful and not actually benefitial to its host?
Second , lower mag means less is available to join the calcium carbonate crystal in place ofcalcium.. So higher mag means less a biotic precipitation even if calcium is high but probably more so if calcium is low.
<<< High calcium can play a role in keeping alk as high as you might like too.>>>?
I think this is a typo?you mean Mg,correct? If not I really got to spend some time in the chemistry archives.:reading:
Thanks for your insight and taking the time to discuss them.
Natural reefs have low PO4 in the .05ppm or less range . The stony coral needs to lay out calcium carbonate skeleton for tissue to grow on. Excessive PO4 inhibits this and knocks the coral out of balance. Too much PO4 or NO3 can also lead to excessive zoooxanthelae growth leading to browning and the production of more oxygen than the coral can deal with.It's a question of balance.
No, I mean very high calcium can make it difficult to keep alkalinity as high as you want without precipitation.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
all liquid two part Ca/alk preparations (B-ionic, Randy's recipe, BRS recipe etc.) have a separate Mg supplement.
Cptn Spaulding
New member
try making a solution of it in a doser.. certain companies make them, they are like a half a liter and you can control the amount you dose in a day/hour/minute/etc. they arent expensive, i got one for free with some part 1 and two stuff by Kent i got for cheap. it uses a valve with a wheel attached to it and the more you turn the wheel, the tighter/looser the airline tubing gets, controlling the amount of whatever you put in your tank.. i dunno, its something to look into
