Quick electrical question

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...Please don't assume that I'm an idiot...

I simply pointed out that the conversation had somewhat moved past the OPs initial question. You are absolutely free to post anything in any context you wish. My advice was meant to be friendly and apologize if it was seen as anything different. I certainly did not assume you were an idiot and was not looking for a fight.

....Did the OP mention what type of equipment he was using or how many devices? No, he didn't. For all we know he was powering a light and air stone...
Seeing that you asked...

The OP did not explicitly mention what type of equipment or how many devices he had, but from context we can make a fairly well informed assumption :)

Where my 90g tank is going in my apartment....

...and outlet I'll be using is about 6ft from the tank itself.

...My ultimate goal is to have this be my outlet for my two power strips, reducing the need to have cords stretched out from behind the tank. One cable looks better than a bunch.
So the OP tells us he has a 90 Gallon tank that is 6 feet away from the closest outlet. He also tells us that he wants to use that single outlet to power the 90 gallon aquarium with a single cable. The system being a 90G aquarium means at least a lighting fixture and a large pump of some type will be needed. The OP's profile indicates his state of residence is Washington, so it is likely that the system will require a heater as well. Furthermore, the OP indicates that he needs at least 2 power strips and therefore implies that somewhere between 8-12 devices are going to be connected to the system. So, as fellow aquarists, we do have a good idea what type of devices are going to be plugged in, and he has given us an idea of how many :)


The OP living in an apartment means that it is not likely a good idea (for many reasons) for him to replace the circuit breaker or receptacle with a GFCI device. It is always best if possible to separate critical devices into different GFCIs to prevent nuisance trips or a single faulting device from taking down the entire system. Given the above and the fact that he appears to want GFCI protection, it would be a good idea for him to utilize at least one GFCI device per power strip.

In any case, that is where the conversation was headed...
 
It is foolish to hope for heartfelt responses from engineers! We may be an intelligent group (arguably) but in terms of people skills there is a notable deficiency in the career field, to which I am certainly guilty of as well.
 
Very sad display by members that just want to argue.... and not answer the orginal question. Who cares about an entension cord and terminal box.... just do it the correct way seeing Silvergryphon is renting.

Silvergryphon,
If you haven't already... I would personally ask the Apartment manager to install (2) GFCI outlets for you. You could tell them you will pay for the outlets as long as the breaker box supports this and that Apartment complex maintenance does the labor. This will cover you in the case of any accident as you will not be liable seeing as they performed the electrical work and not yourself. My sure you get a copy of the work order (like any work order for repairs in your apt) and keep in a fireproof box or somewhere electronically). Good luck and hop everything works out for you.
 
Or....

Use this link to search all "Portable GFCI"... http://www.grainger.com/category/portable-gfci/ground-fault-protection/electrical/ecatalog/N-8d5?perPage=48&requestedPage=1

8ZF46_AS01


I think this is what Silvergryphon is trying to make.... see linkhttp://www.grainger.com/product/POWER-FIRST-GFCI-Quad-Box-5YL44?s_pp=false
 
They also sell inline GFCI power strips with built in GFI's and reset buttons. The same type that you would sometimes see on a boat dock for special applications. You can buy them at a marine supplier.
 
Seeing that arc fault breakers and GFCI breakers do the same thing and will trip for the exact same reasons, installing a GFI breaker in place of an arc fault breaker where a GFI breaker is needed wouldn't be considered a code violation, but actually a requirement.
 
They also sell inline GFCI power strips with built in GFI's and reset buttons. The same type that you would sometimes see on a boat dock for special applications. You can buy them at a marine supplier.

Or you can explore the link I provided in an earlier post in this thread (#8 IIRC)...
 
GFCI is not an AFCI receptacle this is a mis-conception they are designed for two different applications.

GFCI measures the difference in watts from the hot to neutral wire any difference out of tolerance and the circuit is broken. AFCI measures erratic changes that measure as a arc or a short circuit and trip the breaker the Arcs generate heat and are the leading cause of electrical fires.

GFCI trips if you hold the hot to the ground or if you act as the ground and touch the hot saving your life, AFCI will stop an arc that would have started your aquarium on fire due to overloaded powerstrips, but it would not have stopped the electricution.

GFCI's are required near water or where water is likely to be (bathrooms, kitchen, outdoors, garage, unfinished basements) AFCI's are required everywhere else where they can be programmed, living areas, non-GFCI locations "not installed where arc is typicall such as kitchens, bathrooms, garages, and unfinished basements."

I wonder how AFCI would handle MH E ballasts.

Two separate roles that can be combined but not exchanged.
 
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Very sad display by members that just want to argue.... and not answer the orginal question. Who cares about an entension cord and terminal box.... just do it the correct way seeing Silvergryphon is renting.
It sure appears to me that several of us have attempted to answer the question and provide the OP with safe and reliable advice while taking into account the fact that he is renting. The "right way" is part of what is being debated.

Even if the landlord is willing to installed a GFCI breaker or receptacle (highly unlikely), in my opinion the solution is less attractive than a DIY (or purchased) solution with multiple GFCI endpoints.
 
And considering it's been over a week since the OP posted to this thread really is dead, why am I typing this......
 
Seeing that arc fault breakers and GFCI breakers do the same thing and will trip for the exact same reasons, installing a GFI breaker in place of an arc fault breaker where a GFI breaker is needed wouldn't be considered a code violation, but actually a requirement.

They are not the same thing and not equivillent. YOU CAN NOT install a GFCI circuit breaker in place of an AFCI circuit breaker. Doing so is certainly a code violation and passing such advice along is irresponsible.

Arc Fault Circuit Breakers (ignoring code requirements) are not well suited to aquarium use, and are extremely prone to nuisance tripping. In fact, they are so problematic that many jurisdictions are starting to hand out waivers in situations where the homeowner, electrician or inspector demonstrates that the NEC required AFCI is a nuisance.

To that end, a grandfathered branch circuit with a standard CB may require an upgrade to AFCI if (permited/inspected) work is done. Seeing that there is no law against the use of an exension cord in this situation (an aquarium in an apartment is not a permanent fixture), the cord and plug GFCI makes even more sense.
 
They are not the same thing and not equivillent. YOU CAN NOT install a GFCI circuit breaker in place of an AFCI circuit breaker. Doing so is certainly a code violation and passing such advice along is irresponsible.

Arc Fault Circuit Breakers (ignoring code requirements) are not well suited to aquarium use, and are extremely prone to nuisance tripping. In fact, they are so problematic that many jurisdictions are starting to hand out waivers in situations where the homeowner, electrician or inspector demonstrates that the NEC required AFCI is a nuisance.

To that end, a grandfathered branch circuit with a standard CB may require an upgrade to AFCI if (permited/inspected) work is done. Seeing that there is no law against the use of an exension cord in this situation (an aquarium in an apartment is not a permanent fixture), the cord and plug GFCI makes even more sense.

The prohibition concerning extension cords, is a prohibition against the use of the extension cord itself. 400.8 B is pretty specific about it. The permitted uses of flexible cord, in the first part of B, do not apply to an extension cord. To quote:

"It should be noted, that the cords referred to under this section are the cords attached to the appliance, not extension cords supplementing or extending the regular supply lines. The use of an extension cord would represent a conflict with the requirements of the code as it would serve as a substitute for a recepticle near the appliance, thereby violating 210.50(B).

Extension cords are intended for temporary use, with portable applicances, tools, and similar equiipment which are not normally used at one specific location."

Extension cords or "cord sets" as they are usually referred to in the NEC, and standards listings, are intended for "temporary use." This is defined else where in the code as not more than 3 hours. They are not permitted to used as an extension of a branch circuit, and as soon as you put a recepticle at the end of the cord, it becomes an extension of the branch circuit.

210.50 requires in a residential occupancy, that a recepticle be located within 6 feet, of the intended location of "an appliance." Where walls are covered and finished etc, it is a good permissable use of surface mount raceways such as wire mold. But it would not be a permitted use of flexible cord. That's the gotcha in 400.8: if you need an extension cord to connect to the recepticle, it is not permitted. Wire mold IS the solution to this.

One might argue that I am stretching the definitions in the NEC, but I'm not really. As most know, the NEC is a very complex "document" with the same "device/method/material" covered in multiple sections. It may say "not permitted, unless otherwise permitted by the code...permitted unless otherwise not premitted..." it can make you nuts. But an aquarium is not defined in the NEC, as of yet. That may be good, that may be bad, but it isn't. So when an issue arises, the AHJ is going to have a field day, and the above are some of the codes that will be examined. Others would concern attaching multi-outlet devices to workbenches, etc. An aquarium isn't a workbench either, but then, what is it? Undefined, and that leaves the door open.
 
NEC 2011

400.8 Uses Not Permitted. Unless specifically permitted
in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the
following:

(1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure

(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings,
suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors

(3) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar
openings

(4) Where attached to building surfaces

Exception to (4): Flexible cord and cable shall be permitted
to be attached to building surfaces in accordance with the
provisions of 368.56(B)

(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located
above suspended or dropped ceilings

(6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise per-
mitted in this Code

(7) Where subject to physical damage



210.50
(A) Cord Pendants. A cord connector that is supplied by a
permanently connected cord pendant shall be considered a
receptacle outlet.

(B) Cord Connections. A receptacle outlet shall be in-
stalled wherever flexible cords with attachment plugs are
used. Where flexible cords are permitted to be permanently
connected, receptacles shall be permitted to be omitted for
such cords.

(C) Appliance Receptacle Outlets. Appliance receptacle
outlets installed in a dwelling unit for specific appliances,
such as laundry equipment, shall be installed within 1.8 m
(6 ft) of the intended location of the appliance.


The 3 hours in continuous load definition specifiically states "A load where maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more" I find nowhere in the NEC that prohibits an extension cord for use more than three hours.

Appliance: An appliance that is fastened or otherwise secured at a specific location.
Appliance Portable examples, refrigerator, non-built in range, clothes washer.
Appliance Stationary: An appliance that is not easily moved from one place to another in normal use.
 
The basis of any argument is if our tanks are considered permanent or stationary. If you build in wall or in any other fashion permanently attach your stand/aquarium to your home you need to have an electrical plan/system installed.

If your 90 Gallon aquarium is not permanently fixed then it falls under the portable, much like your washing machine or refrigerator. In this case power strips are just fine.

The NEC cited above is specifically talking about permanent use or a fixed appliance to which a typical aquarium does not fit under the definitions. Motor thresholds are 2 HP even a reeflo gold or tiger pump is only 1.5 horse so unless you have a large tank you are not under the NEC perview for additional branch circuits or permanent wiring like a wire mold.

It is my opinion that under 120 G you are fine in regards to NEC, if you push 180G or above you seriously need to consider installation of dedicated branch circuits especially if you use a chiller or get significant use from your heaters. And I will add that Uncle's comments do apply to your home for larger tanks and you can't use a power strip from a distant outlet.

Not sure the OP understood that a quick electrical question was going to end up a long NEC debate session.
 
The prohibition concerning extension cords...

...One might argue that I am stretching the definitions in the NEC, but I'm not really.


Even though we agree more often than not, this is one of those cases where our interpretation of code (and more importantly jurisdiction) greatly differs.

I have absolutely no issue (ethical, safety, or legal) using a well made power distribution block to deliver electricity to an aquarium, desk, entertainment center or similar "permanent" space.

...says the guy who has 3 20A branch circuits split into 6 GFCIs feeding 18 piped, individually circuit breakered, bubble covered receptacles for his 75G in-wall aquarium :)
 
You have to be careful with many of the extension cord style GFCIs, as they often have to be manually reset after a power failure. The behavior is a safety feature based on the assumption that the cord will be used with power tools.
 
I have absolutely no issue (ethical, safety, or legal) using a well made power distribution block to deliver electricity to an aquarium, desk, entertainment center or similar "permanent" space.

Desks, entertainment centers, are portable not permanent as are most aquariums. Stationary is certainly arguable but most aquariums are under the load capacity for dedicated branch circuits. So I go back to my original comments about the NEC only goes to the wall outlet, buy some good 15 amp powerstrips and run with it, with GFCI is a plus but $600 is way out of a normal person's price budget. Replacing the current outlet with a GFCI is a much cheaper way to go but the replacement would need to be done by the apartment maintenance not by the renter.
 
Desks, entertainment centers, are portable not permanent as are most aquariums...


...So I go back to my original comments about the NEC only goes to the wall outlet

Exactly... Even if the NFPA/NEC claims some type of jurisdiction over the home owner and their cord and plug devices, there is no enforcement or compliance mechanism anyway.


There is a thread around here (or somewhere) about a guy who "tried to do it right" when installing a 120 gallon aquarium. He called the local AHJ for electrical guidance and ended up opening a huge can of worms. If I remember he correctly the AHJ imposed some fairly odd and expensive electrical requirements but also required the homeowner to pay an engineer for load calcs as well as applying for and paying for some type of grey water storage and disposal permits.
 
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