Re-automating my tank

[Donw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8274204#post8274204 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eameres
I'm waiting to see how you integrate monitoring (ph, orp, conductivity, etc...). Man those probes can get pricey!

There is no real trick here either. Remember I said it uses external controllers to get a layer of redundancy. The secu16's can use 0-5v signals or 4-20ma signals. Hanna has a line of mini panel mount controllers. They are very small and have a 4-20ma output along with a regular relay output. Each one runs about $150. For a outstanding temp sensor I use a ranco controller that has a 1-10v output. These are kind of hard to find but grainger always has them.
So basicly if you had one ph controller. You could hook the 110v output to co2 a solenoid and the 4-20 to the secu16. Let the secu16 control your kalk reactor vs rodi. Also have the ocelot send you a page if ph were to go way out of wack. Pretty much what ever you can think of. Make sense?

Don

 

[eameres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8274307#post8274307 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Donw
Make sense?

Don

Yup!

 

[RobbyG]

Don you have no idea how appealing it is to me to set up one of these but this is like another major thing to consume my evening hours and right now the wife is not to pleased with the time I spend working on the Tank to begin with. I kind of disagree with you on the price issue, if you start to add up all the things that are needed to get the controller to full use (2xpower bars, pH, ORP, Temp, 3x levels sensors, PC interface) It all adds up.

 

[horkn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8241096#post8241096 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Donw
I undertand, most try with aquarium controllers but they are very limited.
For me its another hobby and the system is tied to my house that is also very automated. Besides I never forget to clean that darn skimmer air hose.

what are your thoughts on using an Allen bradley microligi 1100 ethernet capable PLC to automate the reef?

see, i work in purchasing and my Gf works at rockwell automation. we use PLCs for water and wastewater automation, and i know it can be used to automate a tank.

it may not be the cheapest way top do it for msot folks, but i think i can get my hands on a 1100 that has been refurbished

 

[BeanAnimal]

Your GF can send me as many PLCs as hse cares too... I will make good use of them!

PLCs are great.... esp a high end AB. If you can get one cheap, then it is a great platform. You also need to uderstand how to program them (something that is well over the head of most people). There are a few folks here who have used them for tank setups... I don't have the patience to learn yet one more programming platform.

Bean

 

[eameres]

I'm looking at the boards from www. futurlec . com , interesting stuff and VERY inexpensive.

 

[Donw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8274686#post8274686 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RobbyG
Don you have no idea how appealing it is to me to set up one of these but this is like another major thing to consume my evening hours and right now the wife is not to pleased with the time I spend working on the Tank to begin with. I kind of disagree with you on the price issue, if you start to add up all the things that are needed to get the controller to full use (2xpower bars, pH, ORP, Temp, 3x levels sensors, PC interface) It all adds up.

It does add up but comparing it to the aquatronica with one ph probe, one power strip and one float at $700.

Ocelot $160
Secu16 $90
Ph controller $150
"power"/ power module $85
3 float switches $30
1 optical for skimmer $45
Ranco with 110v and 1-10v $80

Total of $640 and you got 2 extra floats, a optical, redundant heat/chiller control and redundant ph control.

Don

 

[Donw]

After a few pm's I think I should make it clear. I am not a dealer and dont sell this stuff. I'm just a satisfied and expeienced user. The power modules will be for sale soon. I'm looking for a dealer so that they can be available for folks with automated systems and NON automated. If I cant find a dealer I'll set up a web site.

Thanks
Don

 

[Donw]

Here is what the hanna controllers look like. Since I'm still in the level control phase of my remodel. This hanna tds controller is next. In order to keep the peace between me and the water company. I'm using a pre-rodi dump or flush, this is because the water company will flush the mains once every month and plug up my sediment filters, paid for itself pretty quick.
I'm lucky to have very low incomming tds (less than 40). So basicly every time the ato starts it opens a bypass valve to the sewer and flushes for 3 minutes or until the incomming tds is less than 49 but not more than 15 minutes. Ive found it usually takes about 1 minute to hit the mark and if the lines were just flushed it takes 8 minutes average. I need to reinstall the valves so the ro membrane will back flush every few days but that will have to wait for the week-end.

 

[ronc98]

Don I agree that this will be much cheaper then an aquatronica for what you get. I thought the same thing.

you will be suprised how many people would rather spend three times are much to get 1/3 less. If you can hit the DIY market you might have some luck.

 

[Charlie97L]

don-

i read through your post, very informative...

i had a question, though. i see your ATO is very well thought out... is there anyway for those of us with a basic system to get a reliable ATO? I have dual floats on mine, one at a higher level that the first, and i'm still paranoid the top one will get stuck and i'll have an overflow.

i know there are deadlock reliable ATOs out there, i just haven't found one.

 

[Donw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8276099#post8276099 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Charlie97L
don-

i read through your post, very informative...

i had a question, though. i see your ATO is very well thought out... is there anyway for those of us with a basic system to get a reliable ATO? I have dual floats on mine, one at a higher level that the first, and i'm still paranoid the top one will get stuck and i'll have an overflow.

i know there are deadlock reliable ATOs out there, i just haven't found one.

I'm assuming your talking about NO automation here just a good basic ato with no fancy relays or wiring. Sure you can. I think in a system like that you just need good quality parts and low voltage.

Of course I'm going to tell you one of my power mudules with a manual switch box connected to the db9 and 3 madison float switches connected to the switch box. With this you are all low voltage neg. poll, have good parts and can contol 8 components maually without pulling plugs or making some funky power panel.

Or make your own relay boxes and use good quality relays.

Don

 

[Tigger240]

im glad he posted his setup, ive been looking for something like this for a while! i wanted something thats not like C++ programming, which i have no clue about, but also something that i can learn from, and make my tank more automated. i looked heavily into aquatronica, but man the cost was quite steep for a full blown setup. i guess money goes easier in 80-150 dollar chunks than 1500+ all at once. more pics don, please? this amount of controll to be had with this unit is surprising, not to mention programmable to pretty much meet any need or setup. something along the lines of a dialyseas could be programmed here at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Donw]

There has been question about solenoids lately. I'm going to be using both the 110v and the 12v. Contrary to belief the ones from mcmaster be it 12v or 110v have either exposed copper or brass I cant tell the difference. Either way Ive used both types for a long time and neither has failed or eroded.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Don...

Both versions (AC or DC) of that solenoid have wetted brass. The AC versions have wetted copper (in the form of a shading coil). I wouldnt use it/them on the TANK side of an RO/DI but other people do and seem to report no problems. If you look at McMaster you will find a "polycarbonate" solenoid valve that comes equiped with John Guest fittings. The DC version of this valve has ONLY stainless (and plastic) wetted part. I will be using them as they are not much more expensive and made by a high quality company (Norgren). As I have metioned in other posts, the AC version of most ANY direct actuated solenoid has a Copper shading coil that is wetted.

Bean

 

[Donw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8285740#post8285740 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Don...

Both versions (AC or DC) of that solenoid have wetted brass. The AC versions have wetted copper (in the form of a shading coil). I wouldnt use it/them on the TANK side of an RO/DI but other people do and seem to report no problems. If you look at McMaster you will find a "polycarbonate" solenoid valve that comes equiped with John Guest fittings. The DC version of this valve has ONLY stainless (and plastic) wetted part. I will be using them as they are not much more expensive and made by a high quality company (Norgren). As I have metioned in other posts, the AC version of most ANY direct actuated solenoid has a Copper shading coil that is wetted.

Bean

One in the photo is 110v and the other is 12v. Both have been in use for two years. The version your talking about Ive been using also with salt water for the water change system. FWIW all of them still look brand new on the inside just like the valves pictured. My only complaint is that the poly ones are loud enough to wake me up if I do a water change late at night.

Don

 

[Donw]

Please excuse the dust, but this should be the solenoid that Bean is talking about. Works great with SW.

 

[Cuervo]

What do you guys think about the solenoid valves here:
http://stcvalve.com/I-Solenoid.htm?gclid=CJm0-cSK44cCFQlTVAod4kTg2g

They even have some that go up to 1/2" NPT at a fairly reasonable price.. even for the 3 and 4 way.

 

[H20ENG]

Dang Don, You running a barbershop?:lol:

I was just looking at that valve at mcmaster. Looks like #7876K82
I was going to ask about that one

"Delrin Solenoid Valves
A Delrin body provides these valves with good chemical resistance at a lower cost than stainless steel valves. In addition, their small size fits into confined spaces. They have a Class F coil. VAC valves operate on 60 Hz. Valves with Buna-N seals have No. 8 bottom mounting holes. Temp. range is 35° to 200° F. Mount in horizontal pipe with coil on top. Normally closed valves have a side inlet and side outlet. Normally open valves have a side inlet and top outlet. Valves with Viton seals have 1/4" side mounting holes. Coil enclosure is rated NEMA 1 (indoor use only). Mount in any position. Temp. range is 0° to 150° F.
Pipe Connections: NPT female.
To Order: Please specify voltage where an amp rating is listed in the chart: 120 VAC, 24 VAC, 12 VDC, or 24 VDC.

"

I think Bean was referring to #5489T41

"Polycarbonate Solenoid Valves with Instant Tube Connections
Instantly install these valves into your systemâ€" insert your tubing into the fitting and the tube connection quickly seals on the outside of your tubing. Use with compressed air and water, purified water, oil, and mild cleaning fluids. Temperature range is -10° to +100° F. Also called push-to-connect fittings, they have a Class F coil and 1/4" quick-disconnect electrical connections. Valves remain closed until electrically energized (normally closed). Mount in any position. UL listed and CSA certified. Valves with food-grade EPR (ethylene propylene) seals are NSF certified C-2 for food equipment components.
Tube Connections: Instant tube connections.
To Order: Please specify voltage: 120 VAC, 24 VAC, or 24 VDC.
"

 

[H20ENG]

Cuervo,
Unfortunately, they seem to be all metal solenoids.

Bean,
Silly question: I was always under the impression you could replace the coil on a solenoid valve with another (say an original 120vac coil with a 24vdc) coil, as long as it was for the same valve. (Against my better judgement, but not sure where I heard it years ago)
This means the wetted parts would be incorrect?
I swear, you and Don get me thinking more than anyone else here. :hammer: