Reef Tank on a Sail Boat

crazzyreefer

crazzyreefer

New member
The sail Boat in question is a 70' Motor Sailor, I know there is a few large luxury yachts with tanks, many larger than the systems we have in our homes, even a few that employ full time divers..... This is not one of them.... Budget is around 10k. The tank Will be 40-60 gal full reef ,the total water volume to be under 100 gal, I'm thinking 36LX20DX24H (not set in stone)the Boat is 70' and is over 70 tons, so weight is not an issue, We have water storage for 3000 gal of fuel and water. In fact for every ton we drop 1/2 inch into the water. More or less the issues of design is centered around the power structure, Feeding and the Stainless Port needed to access the tank. I will have 2-4 Solar panels that can generate 400w, but that's peak, so I would rate them less, We will be using DC only equipment, and since most items are DC and then inverted to AC we will have a bit better power consumption than of normal reef equipment. There will be a dedicated 4 battery bank to store power and I also can add a small wind turbine to the grid to supplement the power consumption.

The boat caries a 1000gpd Water maker, A pressurized RO unit and advanced water filtering system. The tank will need to have access for maintenance and such, that will be done from a port hole on the cabin top. The port hole is cast 316 Stainless 10X20 from New Found Metals. This will give me a way to lock it down in rough seas and it will allow natural day light into the tank. A breather tube will draw air form the cabin to excange the CO2 gasses and the exhaust of air will be routed to the out side of the boat, Sea water will be first go through a UV sterilizer and slowly added into the tank, a simple over flow will allow excess water to go back into the sea. I will supplement the light with Water proof LED lighting that will encircle the port light. Filtration will be done with live rock and a Large ATS that will run from floor to ceiling (7') powered by more LED lights and flow back into the tank will be done by an air lift by an air stone much in the way the old UG filters operated, but this will be from the floor or lower (up to 12') to send the water back into the tank, 2 DC Tunze streams will create flow. Tank Cooling will be done with the existing refrigeration system that is located under the tank in a separate refrigeration equipment room.and does not need additional power consumption. Heating will be a 25-50 Watt heater. I could use the heat generated by the refrigeration equipment. But on a cold day they will not go on much, So I will still add a heater. a metering pump will add additives. A small controller will keep the system running.


So As I see it a few issues... Budget not withstanding.
1. Electrical, can I get all this equipment under 200w-300 continuous

2. Stainless Port lights, are they going to be an issue?

3. fish feeder, can I make one that is water proof? The fish tank wont have easy access from the inside of the boat, unless I add another small port, but even then we will not be on the boat every day, so a feeder is still needed.

4. do fish get Sea Sick?

Any real knowledge along these lines will surly help. I have built many tanks, tested and designed equipment for the aquarium trade for the last 35 years, Engineering back ground, and can build anything off a cocktail napkin... that said there is just some things that need to be a bit thought out better. This is not a futile exercise in arm chair planing, I have gutted 2 floors to make room for a mezzanine Steering station, We are removing the mast and Deck stepping it, the new large beams are being made as I write, and will start to be fitted in the up coming weeks, A full commercial galley is being installed and Granite counter, unmatched by anyone homes are being shipped in.


Current tank is a 600gal total 1000gal full reef with a 24' skimmer, 240w Scrubber, and a automated airless 100g dump system every 30 seconds.
 
Keep in mind, those large luxury yachts tend to have things like stabilizers and rarely, if ever, leave port in anything but great weather for motoring. With that in mind, what sort of sailing do you intend? Good sailing weather calls for wind, which means the seas will be a bit lumpy. If your doing any sort of blue water sailing were you could find yourself out in heavy weather, everything needs to be secure enough to be immobile when slammed about, healed over, and nearly turned upside down. This means all rock work, coral, filtration, etc. It's a tall order, never mind your electrical supply issues...for which I'd install a gen set for good measure. Seen plenty of very cloudy and windless weather which would leave solar panels and wind generators inadequate. I also don't expect 400watts peak output to be enough for a tank plus typical "house" demands and nav equipment.
 
1. I believe it that it would be hard to do. A heater alone for that size tank is around the maximum wattage you said you're solar panels could provide. I would add the turbine like you mentioned. But I'm still not sure of that will be enough power. What wattage does the wind turbine provide?

2. What do you mean by that? If it's in contact with saltwater then yes. But like I said I don't know exactly what you mean.

3. That answer would be yes :) I saw somebody on here who made an automatic fish feeder out of PVC. If it was me designing a waterproof feeder I'd do a mechanical type feeder.

4. The guys at ATM on their show Tanked created a bus with a tank on it, it did not look pleasant for those fish. But mind it that was on a bus, unless you're turning your sail boat into a speedboat, I think you'd be ok. But I'd be more wary of rougher waves with live fish on board. At 70 tons you are probably safe.

---

Just another thought, you're in California, which has cooler waters than tropical marine fish, so how do you plan on heating the water before it goes into the tank? As you know most saltwater fish in our hobby come from tropical islands, with warm water. Most fish are accustomed to 70-80 degrees. I've been surfing in California and you need a wetsuit almost all year round, so the water has to be relatively cold. I would guess the water temperature would be about 50 or 60 (correct me if I'm wrong) which is far below marine fishes temperature tolerance. You'd need to have some sort of tank to heat the water (after it's run through the previous UV and filtering systems) to the correct temperature, and the tank would need to hold it for a few hours until it can stabilize temperature.


This is a really cool idea, take pics for us here please. :D
 
One last thing, I'd be very careful of pollution in the area you'll be sailing. A lot of that can't be filtered by conventional filters. Bill also mentioned the fact that you need wind to sail, vey good point.
 
Off shore boat, had plenty of rough seas before in it, 40 and 50 footers for 24hr solid, I will custom build the rock work to be one piece, it will be attached to the tank by large pins, I carry 4 generators, but I would like the system to be self sufficient, not draining my house battery , the 4 batteries and solar panels are solely for the tank, I have more room for solar panels than that. The cabin temp rarely falls below 70. and it will be a slow, about 2 gal a day going into the tank, so heating the outside water shouldn't be an issue, as for the Wattage, it will stay on most of the time, I would say 50-60% I will figure it out in BTUs before I start. I currently use 500w but that is for 1000 gal and it is exposed to cold attic air through the compressor running the skimmer. As far as the Port, it has to withstand a heavy storm and be easy to open, This grade of stainless does not rust, but I may still have so sort of reaction, just not sure. You are right about the stabilizers, Nope we don't have them, and when under way we are healed over. I can make it that the rock could never move, It is part of the tank build, in fact it needs to built into the tank prior to the lid. Good point about the pollution.... I will make a 3 way valve to ensure where and when I want outside water to go into the tank. Thanks.... Wind turbines produce I can get about 2000 watts total per day for either the wind generator or the Solar panels, I can also increase the amount of panels, if need be. But I do not want 10 panels dedicated to one small reef.
 
Man how we love to complicate our lives. Especially so when we have the means to do so LOL Good luck sailing :)
 
How you planning to construct the tank? Along with the securing the tank and securing the rock work to the tank, the tank wall and seams will need to handle the weight of the sloshing water...which can be considerable with heavy seas. Fuel tanks and water storage tanks typically have baffles to dampen that sloshing. Even under moderate seas on large research vessels, the water in tanks used for specimens sloshes around pretty good, so something to consider. Last thing you need to worry about offshore in a storm is a fish tank rupturing.
 
!" acrylic, large radius Curved front No seam in front, all seams will also have an additional 1" Triangle reinforcement applied to it, this will give the holding power of 2" acrylic. then the entire stand will be built of epoxied 1" ply wood doubled to make 2" it will be then epoxied and then glassed in place to the main bulk head, and Left Cripple of the mast beam, The Left Cripple for the Mast beam is 11" X 8" epoxied Plywood, Mortis set into the Mast which is is 8" X 26" curved Epoxied Plywood beam. For the beam to move it would have to take out the entire side and top of the cabin, only a ship broad siding me would do that, and we have AIS.

If I didn't want complications I would have bought a new 40' boat and set sail .... I love complex..... We are also bringing some of our Toyger cats with us from our cattery, If that doesn't make it more complex I don;t know what will....

The Rock work will be natural coral and Cement combo, it will cover the entire floor and then up the back and Right hand side, I will set 2" acrylic pins throughout the Right wall and back, the cement will be built around it securing it to the walls, just the fact that it is 3 sides will hold it in place, Bottom, Right Side And Left side, Rock shelf and and island of Large Tonga branch will serve as a baffle, The power exerted on the tank is a large factor of why I want to use a Stainless Port for a opening, anything else probably would fail.

The major retrofit to the boat is close to 250k, so an extra 10k is not that out of line with the project, As for a 10 gal, I would be out of room in one fish run.....I keep looking at the 600 and thinking what will I do with it when we leave?

I don't have anyone to bounce off my Crazzy Ideas here, so this helps a lot... It will make me think before I just build it.
 
Sounding pretty solid. Though I still think your crazy, especially taking cats onboard :eek1:

crazzyreefer said:
only a ship broad siding me would do that, and we have AIS.
Click to expand...

Just remember, not everyone out there is running with AIS, and not everyone with AIS is paying anymore attention to it than they are anything else....
 
That to be sure, but the AIS is monitored in shipping channels and we appear on their radar as another ship, We have AIS with two way transmission, so that we reach each other, most boat AIS is only position. That said this was one of the reasons to make a mezzanine steering station, always have a person on watch is the only sure way of not being hit. Bill you sound like you have quite a bit of knowledge, were you on research vessels? The Toyger cats are part of my retirement income, since we are 1 of 20 breeders in the world and we rank in the top 3, this is a major supplement to our cruising funds. No it will not be easy. But my wife loves her tank and fish and cats, and if we are to move off of dry land.... a tank on the boat would be the transitional part she would need.

So what issues would I encounter having a a large part of 316 stainless in contact with the water, I have a 29 that I can test it out, buy a scrap piece and put it in the the small reef and see for my self, but it would be better if someone had first hand knowledge with this metal used in a reef tank.

You said you made a fish feeder water proof, do you have a pic you can send me, I can DIY anything, but just don't have a clue of water proofing one in my mind.
 
How would you tac and zig zag upwind in a monohull with an aquarium? How much does the boat list or heel when beating with full sail in a steady wind? You'd have to add a top or leave 1/3 of the tank empty.

You would also not be able to provide enough electricity with solar that would be acceptable space wise. 400 watts will only power your heater and pump with the sun at full blast add the you'd need 1200 watts just to power those two when the sun is out, with the batteries to support it. How much space do you have for additional batteries, even if you went lithium ion you'd still need half a dozen.
 
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Generally you can expect most freighters and tankers to be monitoring AIS, but commercial fisherman and recreational boaters are quite sporadic about even having AIS. I like the it, but like with most electronics, I don't rely on them. So I'm glad to hear you like having someone actually on watch ;)

BTW I've grown up boating, both recreational and professional. Power and sail. Worked as crew on research vessels, and now days captain.
 
I would strongly advise against putting the tank water back into the sea, this is a great way to spread invasive species such as caulerpa.

Also, what is going to happen to the water in the aquarium when heeling?
 
crazzyreefer I can't tell you how GLAD I am to see you going forward with this project/dream of yours. It's been almost a year ago since you first mentioned this and I was concerned you had abandoned the idea. NOT the case :)

I think it's also AWESOME you're going to be taking some Toygers with you.

I'm going to be following this one along and can't wait to see it coming together.

*subscribed*
 
I dont know how you can build a seam on a tank strong enough to withstand impact after impact on odd and ever changing angles and not have it split. Dont forget no matter what you bolt the tank and stand to, it will flex in even moderate seas. That will stress and eventually snap the seams. The tank will look like a milk shake during rough water. I admire the effort and I wish you luck.
 
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