ReefKeeper vs Apex

[vbsaltydog]

My LFS guy said that these systems are good to have but the probes need to be calibrated so often that the convenience level goes out the door. Is that accurate?

Not true in my opinion and the digital calibration is easy.

Push a button, put the probe in the low end solution, wait for the number to stabilize, push a button, put the probe in a high end solution, wait for the number to stabilize, push a button, done.

Hardly an inconvenience and I think it is only needed every few (6-8) months at most. It is no more of a hassle than changing light bulbs.

 

[Jerdel]

After much research I was initially going to get a reef keeper elite but found that most that have owned both prefered the apex so I picked up an apex a few days ago. Dont have it hooked up yet so cant really comment on much else.

 

[vbsaltydog]

After much research I was initially going to get a reef keeper elite but found that most that have owned both prefered the apex so I picked up an apex a few days ago. Dont have it hooked up yet so cant really comment on much else.

Read the unofficial guide to the Apex and use the web interface for the initial outlet programming.

 

[Steved13]

Here is my story on this question. FWIW

I had the RKL. I thought it was a nice piece of equipment and did a good job, and did, everything it was supposed to do.

I heard about the Apex, and that it could control my vortechs, changing the mode and percentage throughout the day and night, and I thought that was a great idea.

I checked out the DA forum and found that the RKs couldn't control the vortechs. I asked on the DA forum, and found that there was no date for when this would be available. I pressed further, and I was told that DA had missed so many dates in the past that they didn't give out time frames for such things any longer. I politlely expressed my disappointment in their company for deciding to stop trying instead of deciding to get better at it. I got no response, and gave up.

I sold my RKL used, and bought a new Apex, and I have been very pleased since.

I am interested in the new Vertex, when it's released, though...I love the gadgets.

 

[James77]

Digital Aquatics will not even comment on if they even plan on providing Vortech support, let alone set a potential date. Neptune was the first to announce a module, and released it on time and within 6 months of EcoTech allowing 3rd party control. Profilux followed shortly. Even ReefAngel, a very new controller considering the others, is working on getting a module out.

That Vertex will be interesting. I am light on control needs, but gadgets always seem to hok me in.

 

[vbsaltydog]

I love the gadgets.

The arduino based reef angel shows promise and has a ton of features off the shelf for ~200.00

It comes with 8 outlets, variable speed control for leds/tunzes, temp/pH probes, etc for ~200.00

It is based on the arduino microcontroller so it can be expanded upon and programmed however you like. There is a reef angel community that share their scripts for a wide array of desirable functions.

I may get one to see what I can make it do and put it on a nano tank.

 

[Tgronenthal]

How often do you have to replace the probes?

 

[vbsaltydog]

How often do you have to replace the probes?

The conductive probes (pH, orp) should be gently cleaned/recalibrated periodically (6-8 months) to keep the bulb surface clean and reading properly. The probes should not need replacement unless there is a hardware failure. The most frequent probe replacement period that I have heard of is every few years.

 

[Tgronenthal]

I went over to Neptune Systems to see who they sold the Apex Controller through. They have a list here:
http://www.neptunesys.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=38

I clicked through each and found their distributors sell the product for $450.00 to $515.00, depending upon which kit you go with.

The basic kit (as far as I can tell) includes:
Apex Base Unit
Temperature Probe
Apex Display Module w/ 10' AquaBus cable
EnergyBar 8
AquaBus cable 6'

Some other kits have:
Standard Grade pH probe
Lab Grade pH probe

Here are the product pages from each distributor...

http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=2586

http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/co...systems-apex-aquarium-controller-system-kit-1

http://blueribbonkoi.com/webcart/proddetail.php?prod=Apexkit

http://www.coralreefecosystems.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=437

http://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=DI-NPC-AXEB8

http://www.lcsreefstop.com/index.php?mod=descr&id_desc=164&

http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/NEP-C-APEXEB8.html

http://www.reefgeek.com/equipment/C..._Module_&_Temp_Probe_&_EB8_by_Neptune_Systems

http://www.reefgeek.com/equipment/C..._Std_pH_&_Temp_Probe_&_EB8_by_Neptune_Systems

http://www.reefgeek.com/equipment/C..._Lab_pH_&_Temp_Probe_&_EB8_by_Neptune_Systems

http://www.reefspecialty.com/virtue...ptune-systems-aquacontroller-apex-system.html

http://www.saltycritter.com/aquarium-controller/neptune/apex-aquacontroller-combo.htm

http://socaltropicalfishoutlet.com/catalog/apex-basic-package-p-879.html

http://www.tbaquatics.com/neptune-systems-apex-with-free-pinpoint-ph-probe-753.html

 

[nuclearheli]

+100 on the Apex. Have a ton invested in this device, I love it and works great.

But it makes you wonder, what happens to all of us if Kurt (A. Neptune) get's hit by a beer truck? :beer: Sorry Kurt, we are all interested in your continued safety and good health..but just in case do you have a brother?

 

[TonyV]

So I know this topic comes up every few months and typically I ignore it but after just recently having to tweak my RKL for some new equipment, I began to read up on the Apex system and think that overall it might be a easier system to operate, maintain, and upgrade. I am on the fence with making the switch. What makes me really attracted to the Apex is their customer service and wealth of programming knowledge available online here at RC and on their own forums.

Is it as easy as just adding a wireless access point to enjoy the benefits of the web server stuff?

 

[5pacey]

So I know this topic comes up every few months and typically I ignore it but after just recently having to tweak my RKL for some new equipment, I began to read up on the Apex system and think that overall it might be a easier system to operate, maintain, and upgrade. I am on the fence with making the switch. What makes me really attracted to the Apex is their customer service and wealth of programming knowledge available online here at RC and on their own forums.

Is it as easy as just adding a wireless access point to enjoy the benefits of the web server stuff?

It's not just adding a WAP to your network, you also have to add a wireless bridge on the Apex side because it has wired LAN connection - no WiFi.

Spacey

 

[vbsaltydog]

Wireless game adapter like you would use for an XBOX, or a wireless router running in "client mode".

Ex. Some router brands offer a function in their firmware called WDS (wireless distributiion system) that allows one router to act as the main router and other routers to act as repeaters and/or clients.

If you run a supported router in client mode then it is essentially a game server. It connects to your existing wifi via its integrated wifi adapter and the LAN ports allow you to connect devices like an XBOX or an Apex.

The DD-WRT firmware does this well.

I may do a write-up on how to do this at some point if it has not been done already.

 

[extremeshannon]

I am still new to reef tanks. I bought a RK when I got my 55 gallon tank. My plan was to transfer it to my 420 Gallon system. After all the problems I have had and not got some still resolved after 7 months I have bought a Complete neptune system for my Large reef tank. Customer service has been awesome and I plan on starting the set up in a week or two. can't wait.

 

[woodnaquanut]

Wireless game adapter like you would use for an XBOX, or a wireless router running in "client mode".

Ex. Some router brands offer a function in their firmware called WDS (wireless distributiion system) that allows one router to act as the main router and other routers to act as repeaters and/or clients.

If you run a supported router in client mode then it is essentially a game server. It connects to your existing wifi via its integrated wifi adapter and the LAN ports allow you to connect devices like an XBOX or an Apex.

The DD-WRT firmware does this well.

I may do a write-up on how to do this at some point if it has not been done already.

:thumbsup: on the write-up! Do it, do it, do it!!

Do you know if it will work with the Apple AirPort Express?

 

[Dr. Reef]

bump for write up!!!!!

 

[pblogic]

i have asked lots of people for the differences and pros and cons of both units.I decided to email DA and Neptune for their input and their side of the story. Naturally both will claim to be the best. but here is what i found out and lets see what other have to say.
this is the same question i put forward to both manufacturers.


"Hi
i have been using a controller for several yrs now. another brand have come up in several forums online that i write/read on. i use controller to minitor temp, ph of tank,ph of cal reactor, control lights. wavemaking and sump. also have several alarms and checks and balances. ATO system with float switches.
i have a very complex question for you. why should i change over to ur brand?
what is the key difference that you would sell me on to buy this unit?
thanks
Note: i am seriously looking into ur brand but i dont know what i am buying. as
of right now both units look/seem same except for 2 different names."

this is the responce i got from DA (with in few mins)
Never heard anything from them yet after this autogenerated email.

Thank you for your message. We have received it and will get back to you as soon as possible.

You may want to save your case's tracking ticket for future reference: 680**********

We are implementing a upgraded support tracking system here at DA. Please help us help you by using the "Reply" feature of your email system when corresponding on this case. If you have a new issue please send a new email so that we can better serve you.

Thank you,

This is the responce i got from Neptune
I sent them email and got back a reply in less than 5 min.

There really is no comparison between the Apex and the RKE; the Apex
surpasses the REK in just about every aspect. Here is a list:

- High Quality Display with excellent clarity/contrast.
- Costs less.
- Easy to use configuration wizards.
- Most expandable controller - up to 240 modules, thousands of outlets,
hundreds of probes.
- backwards compatible with older AquaController accessories.
- More features - Some include:
more flexible/sophisticated configuration
season lighting control
season temperature control
- Integrated Ethernet (Optional $$$ on RKE)
- Only controller with monitoring & Control & configuration on the webserver
- Monitoring only on RKE with optional Ethernet attachment.
- Only controller with web browser based configuration.
- XML support
- multiple head unit displays with full user interface - not possible on RKE
- multiple sound alarms.
- Includes 6 digital inputs vs 2 on RKE.
- Galvanic Isolation on probes result in accurate readings. RKE has no
isolation and has major interference issues.
- Includes built-in variable speed pump control. Not possible on RKE
- Optional support for Ecotech Marine's Vortech pumps with WXM module. Not
possible on RKE
- Includes built-in 0-10V light dimming. Extra on RKE
- Can name outlets, and modules - not possible on RKE
- ORP input is modal - can be ORP or pH input on the Apex - not possible on
RKE
- Default outlet state on Apex. On RKE when a communication error occurs all
outlets just shut off
- State of the Art 32 bit processor - not an 8 bit slow processor like RKE.
- 5 times faster than competitor's controllers
- 16 times more code space - much more expandable for future enhancements.
Not code space limited like the RKE
- 16 times more storage space for datalogs than the RKE. Up to 1 years worth
of data can be saved in the Apex
- Bus interconnect can be starred or daisy chain configuration.
- Apex base unit has power failure detection/alarms/control - not possible
on RKE.
- EB8 has power failure detection/alarms/control - not possible on RKE
- Don't have to disassemble controller to perform firmware upgrades like on
the RKE
- Reliable/High Quality buttons (No unreliable capsense)
- Lowest cost per outlet control options
- Robust communications protocol Bus Interface with error correcting. RKE
uses I2C and has communications issues.
- EnergyBars have built-in AquaBus hubs - On RKE must purchase add-on.
- Auto setting of clock from internet - not possible on RKE
- Day light savings time support - not possible on RKE
- Built in virtual outlets on Apex. On RKE must purchase a PC1 for virtual
outlets.
- Cable lengths can be much longer than RKE.

Did you really use Ur for Your in your e-mails to them? Sorry...I just cringed reading that...

 

[drw94]

Yes airport express works with apex. You can upgrade firmware with macs now. I tested the airport express first with another computer to ensure I had Internet available. Then plugged Into the apex and it has worked perfectly since.

 

[woodnaquanut]

drw94,
Thanks for the reply!

 

[Dr. Reef]

its still alive