Reeflux 12K bulbs

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14267572#post14267572 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ronz
Geez I think I'm even more confused now than I was before! I was selling XM but was thinking of switching. I have a local guy I can get the Reeflux from and that always makes things easier for me as a LFS if there are problems with the product. Unless I hear more positive comments I think I'll stick with the XM's.......or.........I did hear Phoenix is coming out with SE bulbs and if so that is certainly looking into!!!

If anyone else wishes to chime in on this discussion I am all ears,er, eyes!

Thanks for the input people!
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Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse anyone, I can be more specific though.

I had my one and only XM 15K turn bright yellow on me after a month.

The XM 20K's I ran just didn't have the brightness that I was looking for. The light was far too subdued IMO.

I've had no issues and superb growth with the Reeflux 12K. My only issue is that I think that the "blue" either fades over time, or you just get used to it and stop noticing it.

Phoenix does have a 14K SE 250 watt bulb now. Since these are slightly more "blue" than the bulb I am using, I am really looking forward to trying it.

With proper reflectors, halides are entirely a matter of personal choice.
 
Hey everyone.....don't worry about confusing me...it doesn't take much! The price is reasonable and I asked and I do appreciate people's input! As a LFS in this horrid economy I am looking to change things up here. I'd like to carry more than one line of bulb but that just isn't practical in this economic environment.
So I will settle for products that have a generally better rep! I have done a shrink on my store and am going strictly reef and fish as opposed to the fulll line aquatics thing, and I do respect what is said here. Leave it to Reefers to be madly passionate about their hobby! Matter of fact I am changing the name of my shop to Reefer Madness.

Not to go off topic but I did make a call re Phoenix SE bulbs, and was told that for now someone has an exclusive on them
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14261815#post14261815 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stony_corals
While it's important to understand what a bulb/ballast combo will give you in terms of PAR, it's leaves out a key variable in reef lighting: reflectors. Reflectors, IMHO, are the most important component in lighting. Many people have shown that the reeflux work well. Sanjay's readings are good in that they isolate how different bulbs burn on different ballasts and takes the reflector out of the equation. Given that a totm is getting 1200 PAR off LB, reeflux 12k, and cv 400w ballasts under the water, speaks to the merit of good reflectors and really illustrates that a PAR number doesn't mean much without a reading including a reflector.
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absofrickinlutely, thank you, Reflectors are the most important component in reef lighting unless you are into wasting electricity. Finding the right color is more important to me. After sticking a PAR meter into a few tanks I learned something, if you have quality reflectors you'll have enough PAR to go around.
 
That is a total cop out for Reeflux bulbs.

Choose ANY reflector you want - ANY - then light three bulbs - XM 15K, Reeflux 12K and Iwasaki 15K. Let them burn 100 hours then measure their PAR and Lumen output.

At that point, I am confident you will find a big difference and so will your corals.

If not, then you are happily ok with wasting electricity.
 
I never mentioned reeflux bulbs, but I agree with you that there are bulbs with higher PAR. BFD. Its not always needed.
If PAR is all you care about then buy the bulb with the highest PAR. But it is true that you are constantly bagging on reeflux about low PAR comparitivelty speaking. If someone asks for a high PAR bulb I wouldn't say reeflux. I would say, "what reflector are you using"
My point is simply they grow corals just fine, and that PAR has more to do with the reflector than the bulb. If you cannot understand that then thats fine.
 
"BFD"? Since when is PAR not important??

I don't think you read my post.

Sure, a good reflector would increase the par of a low par bulb such as reeflux. At the same time, that same reflector would increase the par of a high par bulb such as XM 10K or Iwasaki 15K.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14282860#post14282860 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by grigsy
That is a total cop out for Reeflux bulbs.

Choose ANY reflector you want - ANY - then light three bulbs - XM 15K, Reeflux 12K and Iwasaki 15K. Let them burn 100 hours then measure their PAR and Lumen output.

At that point, I am confident you will find a big difference and so will your corals.

If not, then you are happily ok with wasting electricity.
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LOL, don't get all "perturbed"
 
I'm downgrading in watts because my "low par" 400w reeflux bulb isn't necessary in Lumenbrights. I can grow corals anywhere in my tank with a 250w reeflux 20k in a lumenbright and save on electricty two fold, reduction in watts and the lumenbright allows me to mount the bulbs higher off the water reducing heat convection into the tank reducing electricity on cooling the water column. I've never read of a reefer having a tank disaster over a low par bulb. Not sure why it's such a big deal. If you're in the business of selling as many frags as you can grow I would understand why you think par is so important otherwise go by what color you like. I like the color blues that reeflux bring out in corals so thats why I chose them.
 
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Just a point of interest or maybe of no interest. This discussion has focused on two things mainly. Par and reflector quality. Most of sanjays results are not listed or measured in par rather in ppfd. After reading and rereading his articles (more times than I can count) lol, it is apparent that there are differences in these measurements. Secondly, when looking at bulbs against bulbs the reflector quality is not a reflection of the quality of the bulbs light rather how much of its light is reflected back into the tank. As such is not a factor in a bulbs quality. The original post was in reference to a bulbs quality not quality with additional equipment upgrade. Just my thoughts,
 
So has anyone else other than Sanjay done a PAR test and posted the results on this site????? If so please provide a link. Thanks!
 
I cant testify to the exact par level of PAR but i do know one thing, after running the 12k reflux for almost a year i have watched my sps crawl...A friend gave me a set of 20k from a local guy(Reefoptic) to try and every thing has doubled in size in just 3 1/2 months!!

Not to mention the lamps did not really hold there color for more then 6 or 7 months before turning a wight/ yellow...much like a 10k!
 
Personally I feel there is way too much emphasis on high PAR levels. There is only so much a photosynthetic coral can utilize before photo-inhibition comes into effect and growth actually stops.

You need to keep in mind also that the typical PAR meters, we as hobbyists are using, (Apogee) don't have the capacity to measure the full level of blue light that the higher K bulbs put out. So in effect you aren't getting a true PAR measure either. (I don't recall what Sanjay used for his tests though but he also didn't test this bulb in a reflector either to the best of my recollection)

Now in regards to the Reeflux 12k and my personal experience. I ran this bulb (250w) on an ARO e-ballast in a full size Lumenarc III. It gave incredible colors but minimal growth. I agree this bulb is pretty low on the PAR scales. But I have also seen past TOTM running these. Granted it was the 400w version and IIRC they were run on HQI ballasts. So having said that, it is MY opinion that these bulbs give their best performance if run on HQI ballasts. I have since swapped this bulb for the Radium on the same ballast and get even better color and great growth. HTH
 
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