Regal Tang-ich gone with garlic & shrimp only?

[rfraser]

My regal tang was covered in white spots(ich I think) after the 4th day in my tank(No Quarintine,I know!). He didn't look very good but was still eating well. I did a 10% water change, fed him lots of garlic(brine shrimp,blood worms,flake and algea food) and watched as he would let all my shrimp (Cleaner shrimp, blood shrimp and anemone shrimp) chow down on him steady. Now after a week his colour is excellent(no spots), no rubbing on rocks, very active and eats like a big.
Can ich be cured in this manner or should I keep my eyes open for more trouble?

Apperceiate any feed back,Thanks,Rob.

 

[webbstock]

Ich will always be in the tank as long as their are host fish, so watch out for outbreaks, but it sounds like the cleaner shrimp did it's job.

Usually the ich outbreak will require a "trigger" some sort of stress that allows ich to become a problem again. So if you water params remain good and nothing else odd happens things shoud go well.

 

[rfraser]

Ich will always be in my tank, can it be inialated all together? Is it present in all tanks?

Thanks,Rob.

 

[webbstock]

This is a good discussion about ich
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1135029

Basically, in the tank ich will always be present unless drastic measures are taken, i.e. treat the tank medically (which would completely cycle the tank, and kill your inverts/corals) or try removing all the fish and allowing the lifecyle of ich to "run out", which takes some time.

Here is a good snippet from the thread posed by Vitaly

Look'it...as much as people love to think that "stress" causes infectious disease...it just is not true. Infectious agent cause infectious disease. The appropriate analogy to make is to the 1980's dogma that high stress/poor life style leads peptic ulcers in humans. Then one day everyone finally accepted that it is a bacterial infection in the stomach. People treated with antibioltics...low and behold the disease is resolved. No bacteria, no lesions in the stomach lining...regardless of how stressful your life is.

Same holds true for your fish. Get them into quarantine. Let your display run fallow for 6 weeks and it will be free. Ich is an obligate parasite...without a fish host it cannot complete its life cycle (trophant needs to find a host 24-48 hours after they excyst).

In the quarantine tank bring the salinity down. It is a science fact...it does nothing to the trophant or theront stage...but it DOES inhibit the tomont stage. Maintain your fish into in the low salinity and watch their behavior and make sure they are eating. Theywill improve (it is unlikely that you have encountered a low salinity variant that will tolerate the treatment). After the quarantine period is over and the fish have recovered there will be no viable Cryptocaryon irritans left.

Return your fish to the display. You can stress them out all you want...make them watch "So You Think You Can Dance" on tv. It matters not. No pathogen...no source for infection.

There are a number of wonderful articles describing the biology of this pathogen, its life cycle and the science behind treating it. Take some time to read it and understand this problem...our fish will be grateful for it.

 

[Neptune777]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10894995#post10894995 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by webbstock
Ich will always be in the tank as long as their are host fish, so watch out for outbreaks, but it sounds like the cleaner shrimp did it's job.

Usually the ich outbreak will require a "trigger" some sort of stress that allows ich to become a problem again. So if you water params remain good and nothing else odd happens things shoud go well.

False! Ich goes through a very well documented cycle where it is visible on the fish for a period of time. It does not require a "trigger" as mentioned above. It will be present until eradicated and will cycle regularly as long as fish are present.

Also, white spots are not always the classic Ich......the ocean is full of wee beasties that are parasites on fish.....and have different life cycles. I believe that when folks claim Ich and it goes away on it's own.....that they did not have true "Ich" to begin with.

 

[thor32766]

wow some very interesting stuff posted here. But also awesome to have a regal come back after that is pretty amazing.

 

[webbstock]

False! Ich goes through a very well documented cycle where it is visible on the fish for a period of time. It does not require a "trigger" as mentioned above. It will be present until eradicated and will cycle regularly as long as fish are present.

Perhaps a bit of a misunderstanding....What I was trying to say was that the classic "ich outbreak"

that people see on their fish is not normal and generally becomes a significant problem as a result of some form of a "trigger', something that depresses the immune response of the fish.

So yes in a tank that has ich present, fish will be chronically infected with ich, however they may slow little or no signs of it (no white spots) due to natural immunity, cleaner shrimp, rock rubbing etc. However the severely affected fish are generally a result of a trigger that depresses the fish's ability to repress the infection.

An example of what I mean is a yeast infecton in humans. Humans are readily colonized by Candida albicans and it is impossible too fully eradicate the yeast. However, lucky for us, the yeast normally doesn't pose to large of a problem living in (relatively) low numbers in the GI, urogenital, etc. tracts. However when a "trigger" occurs the yeast suddenly have an opportunity to multiple rapidly and cause significant problem. Two prime examples of this are the problems that AIDS patients face (trigger of immune suppression) or Yeast infections in women (triggers antibiotic use, hormonal changes etc that disrupt normal microbiota).

 

[Neptune777]

Ich will multiply exponentially in an enclosed system such as our fish tanks as long as host fish are present in the tank....you will not have small numbers and their visibility will be unmistakable in a short period of time. This will be the case for any parasite in captivity that has no intermediary host. This has been my personal experience on several occasions.

Generally external parasites do not react the same way as microbial pathogens. Bacteria and viruses can be kept in check by the immune system.......It has not been shown conclusively that Ich can be warded off with the fishes immune system....essentially we are comparing apples to oranges.

Think of Ich in terms of a pest like Fleas.....Fleas are not kept in check by a dog's or cat's immune system. If the animal is kept locked up in an infested house the numbers of fleas will reach plague proportions and can cause the dog or cat to become anemic unless proper measures are taken. By this I mean using Frontline or some other known treatment for the exo-parasite.

Same is true with true Ich.....a treatment is necessary to break the cycle and keep their numbers from growing.

 

[Zoom]

My PBT always comes down with ick for as long as i had it Ten years now .
The Ick will go to many cycles for about a month and no other fish will have Ick but the PBT.
this is been going on every year i never really remember on what month but every year i had this outbreak .
Now after all this years i lost the PBT last month to nasty Ick outbreak i never treat the tank ever before and din't do it this time .
I have three more tangs in the tank and none of them show any Ick spots but only once i saw ick spots when i turn the light out for three days to fight out some Dinos.
The Purple tang was full of the ick parasites for about two weeks and after they was all gone in the same time the PBT started with Ick spots .
Now after the PBT was capture and treated with hypo the tang die any way i think it was to far going already.
Is about a month now with no visible signs of ick in any of my fish .
I still say we really don't know for sure if ick will just go doormat for months and when my fish is stress it will come back like always did in my tank.
My tank is 14 years old and the yellow tang that is that old i always look at the fish everyday very closely for sighs of ick , scratching , rubbing nothing so far .
I have not put any new fish in my tank for years now any corals gets quarantine for six weeks and treated for all bug before they go in the tank .
So i will say i have always had ick in my tank or ick always is present in our tank .
I don't really know for sure but after all this years i can say it is possible.
PS, i have ten cleaner shrimps and three red cleaner shrimps for years may be they have something to do with my Ick disappearing.