releasing non native fish back in the reef

[ReeferMonkey]

hard to tell, I did notice he deleted his "little red house" link

guess part of this offer is gone
"jsmith0193 and HOZERTHEBONEFISH, We are off topic regarding this and, your comment are welcome just send me a PM this or visit my website."

I was wondering about that. Did it link to forums or a personal site?

 

[szwab]

a personal site which was some sort of reef/saltwaterfish business. I didn't erally check it out in depth. In past posts he makes quite a few references to his website probably trolling for business on RC.

 

[GSchiemer]

a personal site which was some sort of reef/saltwaterfish business. I didn't erally check it out in depth. In past posts he makes quite a few references to his website probably trolling for business on RC.

I visited the site before Mike Dizon removed the link. It's a web site for his saltwater aquarium business in the Philippines, which is touted to be the premier saltwater aquarium store in the Philippines. There is a blurb about being a responsible and ethical operation as evidenced by the fact that "Mike releases sick and injured fish on a regular basis." Unfortunately, he's for real. I was hoping that he was a troll. The frightening part is that here is someone that's reported to be educated and in the aquarium trade for many years, yet has no clue that releasing aquarium fish, whether native or not, is just plain irresponsible. Furthermore, he has no interest in the facts.

Greg

 

[ReeferMonkey]

MikeDizon, this article pretty much sums up why you shouldn't release non-endemics into an ecosystem, although it's not targeted at reefs in particular.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/o...tml?ex=1131512400&en=ea23c74f8ab8d9ff&ei=5070

 

[onereefnotenuf]

I There is a blurb about being a responsible and ethical operation as evidenced by the fact that "Mike releases sick and injured fish on a regular basis." Unfortunately, he's for real. I was hoping that he was a troll. The frightening part is that here is someone that's reported to be educated and in the aquarium trade for many years, yet has no clue that releasing aquarium fish, whether native or not, is just plain irresponsible. Furthermore, he has no interest in the facts.

Greg

it amazes me how someone who owns an aquarium business can be that blind to the obvious concequences from re-releasing a fish that has spent time i an aquarium. endemic or not, the desease factor is still there. when i started this thread, i wondered if any one would take his side on this. i am happy to see i'm not alone in thinking how detrimental his actions can be.

 

[Fat Man]

Another thing to consider. If the fish was in perfect health, free of disease and parasites, and endemic to the waters releasing it would be a mistake. Unless it was released into the same local population it was collected from releasing it to breed with the local population would reduce the genetic diversity of that population. Here's a read.

 

[Mike Dizon]

ReeferMonkey. I know. Thanks

There are exporters here releasing native fishes back in the ocean. This fishes I notice are in their QT tank. I ask them why do they do this. They mention the marine fish has a better chance to survive better than than their QT.

If you dont want to support this guys them stop buying marine fishes in our country. Plain an simple include the mac caught fishes because one exporter is mac certified who i interviewed.

RicksReefs and StevenPro, can you say that Hawaiin Yellow tang is NATIVE HERE? If you cant agree I respect that but because seeing is believing. I was surprise like you to see it here. There are enough HawaiinYellow tangs exported. Do you really think all the reefs have been check in the Philippines? Some areas are heavily guarded by rebels whos patroling the waters with guns. No one has access to those areas. Unless you want to risk your life and get shot in the head go ahead and do it! They will shoot you without thinking. Many many people have arms here without permits. Not safe Mr.STEVEPRO and Ricksreefs.

I have handled more reef fishes then what you probably think. This include the famous moorish idol and had it for 4 years. Including the Pinatus Batfish from juv to adult eating pellets too. Including keeping many kinds of tangs, etc. Let talk constructive.

Lets make it clear. I am not here to tell you if you are wrong or you are right. Everyone is entitled with there own opinion and respect that if you can, this is RC policy. Your name is posted in the thread and your IP address can be traced. Respect everyones opinion please not to use harmful languages its Rc policy.

There are bigger issues the goverment here are concern like coruption, car knapping, kidnapping, illegal logging, illegal cyanide, poverty, poor wages, etc.

RE: RicksReefs, onereefnotenuf, if you are going to personally attack me I am not interest anymore with this topic and your comments and I promise to end your discussion. Starting with me.

 

[Steven Pro]

If you dont want to support this guys them stop buying marine fishes in our country.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I go out of my way to never buy any fish coming out of the Philippines or other countries known for sub-par care and handling along with the use of cyanide.

Your name is posted in the thread and your IP address can be traced.

That sounds somewhat like a threat.

 

[onereefnotenuf]

Your name is posted in the thread and your IP address can be traced. Respect everyones opinion please not to use harmful languages its Rc policy.

RE: RicksReefs, onereefnotenuf, if you are going to personally attack me I am not interest anymore with this topic and your comments and I promise to end your discussion. Starting with me.

what harmful language? i re read this thread and see no "harmful" language. just a lot of people disgusted with the you're harmful practices.
so you make threats and run? way to stand up for you're beliefs.
one question, what does you're collection methods have to do with releasing aquarium fish into the ocean?

 

[RicksReefs]

There are exporters here releasing native fishes back in the ocean. This fishes I notice are in their QT tank.

well, considering they're probably on a flow thru system
connected to the ocean, they never really leave it. and show me
an exporter 'QT'. the only quarantine i've seen from one is the
box it's shipped in.

If you dont want to support this guys them stop buying marine fishes in our country.

i stopped about 20 years ago

RicksReefs and StevenPro, can you say that Hawaiin Yellow tang is NATIVE HERE?

well since they're ENDEMIC to most of the pacific, unless you
asked for passports, them being from hawaii is a stretch

Lets make it clear. I am not here to tell you if you are wrong or you are right. Everyone is entitled with there own opinion and respect that if you can, this is RC policy. Your name is posted in the thread and your IP address can be traced. Respect everyones opinion please not to use harmful languages its Rc policy.

HUH??

There are bigger issues the goverment here are concern like coruption, car knapping, kidnapping, illegal logging, illegal cyanide, poverty, poor wages, etc.

yes, but that's not why we're here on RC

RE: RicksReefs, onereefnotenuf, if you are going to personally attack me I am not interest anymore with this topic and your comments and I promise to end your discussion. Starting with me.

:lmao: i never 'attacked' you. your practices, yes. you, no.
you can end your discussion all you want, i may post on this for
days to come...

 

[Fishfirst]

Man, talk about ignorance. This guy maybe great at "husbandry" (although I doubt he's had a moorish idol for four years considering his repeated ignorance) but he's destroying his own business by introducing the exotic species to his own reefs that he catches his fish on. Same thing with carp, introduced to the USA, wreaking havoc ever since.

 

[shane 1111]

it's one of the most destructive and ill advised 'feel good' things
that aquarists can do. nothing that's been in captivity should be
released back into the wild, even native species.

i have a 3 stripe damsel i caught locally.

here's a few things that appear to have established themselves in florida waters...

http://www.reef.org/exotic/index.html

are these fish breeding?
i am mostly curious about the tangs. Florida reefs are infested with algae right? and most natural grazers have ben diminished. wouldn't tangs possibly help the situation? tangs are a important part of all reefs but the ones in Florida right?
please don't flame me I am just asking
I know this is not good to do and do not support it.

 

[RicksReefs]

it's all good...

the lionfish are known to have established a breeding population.
it's thought that the yellow tang and some angels may be breeding.
florida already has an assortment of 'tang' species and other
animals to handle the grazing. if there's a niche, it's already been
filled by something. an exotic introduction has no choice but to
affect something that occupies the same niche.

floridas reefs are infested with algae because of the nitrogen and
phosphorus rich water we dump everyday into it. it's not really a
shortage of grazers IMO, but more that they haven't caught up to
available food. runoff has also killed almost the entire oyster
populations, which were one of the main filter feeders of
phytoplankton blooms.

 

[Steven Pro]

it's all good...

the lionfish are known to have established a breeding population.
it's thought that the yellow tang and some angels may be breeding.
florida already has an assortment of 'tang' species and other
animals to handle the grazing. if there's a niche, it's already been
filled by something. an exotic introduction has no choice but to
affect something that occupies the same niche.

floridas reefs are infested with algae because of the nitrogen and
phosphorus rich water we dump everyday into it. it's not really a
shortage of grazers IMO, but more that they haven't caught up to
available food. runoff has also killed almost the entire oyster
populations, which were one of the main filter feeders of
phytoplankton blooms.

Plus the epidemic that killed 90% of the diadema urchins throughout the Caribbean.

 

[RicksReefs]

there's that too, but in my area, there seems to be no
shortage at all of Diadema and the Echinometra
urchin populations have exploded. my particular spot my be
unusual in that it's been fighting discharge since lake okeechobee
was 'built' and has had algae issues for decades (perhaps
spurring a localized population boost.)

 

[jolt26]

if you guys think that you are not buying anything here (especially INDIRECTLY), then you're in for the biggest surprise of your life

 

[HOZERTHEBONEFISH]

Im trying to decipher that last post. Please explain jolt26

 

[GSchiemer]

if you guys think that you are not buying anything here (especially INDIRECTLY), then you're in for the biggest surprise of your life

It's fairly easy to avoid Philippine fish, which I personally do. The easiest way is to simply not buy fish that occur in and around the Philippines. IOW, buy Caribbean, African, Red Sea and Indian Ocean fish or variants of fish. If I want Indo or South-Pacific fish, I buy Fiji or Australian caught fish. These come in on special shipments and are easy to differentiate from other origins. Finally, if you deal with a reputable retailer, they will most likely avoid Philippine fish or be honest enough to tell you of their origin.

It's really sad that we even have to think this way. I was recently in the market for a Majestic/Navarchus angel and couldn't find one that wasn't Philippine or Indo caught, so I didn't buy one at all knowing that it most likely would die within two weeks. Those that have been in this hobby for a while know that it's worth spending a few extra dollars on a fish to avoid Philippine specimens. It's sad too that you think it's funny that many Philippine fish are purchased by unsuspecting hobbyists. The last laugh will be on your country when there are no more coral reefs and no more fish to export.

Here's some text from a recent article on exactly that subject:

95% of RP reefs ruined, says group

"By Blanche S. Rivera
Inquirer News Service

ANILAO, BATANGAS-Philippine coral reefs, renowned for being home to amazing marine resources, are in terrible condition, according to the world's biggest reef conservation organization.

Blast fishing and an unregulated marine aquarium trade have destroyed much of the country's coral reefs over the years, said Reef Check, an international organization assessing the health of reefs in 82 countries...."

If you want to read the entire story, look here:

95% of RP reefs ruined, says group

Greg

 

[tokitay]

Wise up man. Zoom out and consider just how bad a choice it is to do something so irresponsible! Besides the many examples in this thread just think of the species dessimation caused by people doing exactly what you are. Duhhh!!!

 

[jolt26]

i personally know a reef fish distributor in Jersey. 80% of their fishes come from here. but of course, they will NEVER mention that to buyers. owner of that fish distributor is married to a filipina. i wont mention his name, of course, or he'll be bankrupt.

the fishes he gets here do well in tanks there. i guess you wont care where it really came from, as long as it lives and do great, right?

reef conditions are bad, i agree. poor fishermen who wants quick income. but why are you blaming me? is it my fault? i'm an environmentalist trying to do my part.

go to liveaquaria.com. search "Cebu" (which is in the philippines). you'll see many fishes found only here. btw, corals there are much better than Anilao. they even plant SPS coral frags there. like a coral reef "reforestation."

tokitay, what did i do? irresponsible what? bad choice what? doing exactly what i did? what the hell are you saying?! DUH back to you!

wise up as well and read! if you think i was the one who released fishes in the ocean, that is not me. duhhhhhhhhh!!!

generalize all the filipinos and label us collectively as "coral destroyers." change the thread title to "bash the filipinos at RC" while your at it.