Responsibly wild caught vs. tank raised?

[maddyfish]

Just a thought, but maybe it is best for the fish if they stay rare and expensive, like wild cuaght fish, instead of cheap and plentiful like captive bred fish? For instance, how many $14.99 clowns have suffered and died Nemo-death? How many would have died if Nemo cost $59.99?
This is not my position, I can see good and bad to both sides, but maybe marine fish are better off responsibly wild caught, than captive bred. Look at Hawaii, how many yellow tangs have been caught from there, responsibly? And are still plentiful. Maybe the fish would suffer less if they were rare and expensive. But it would also be necessary to get these third world countries to stop cyanide and dynamite fishing.
I just think that the cheaper the fish, the worse the suffering.But I see the other side too.
Convince me why rare, expensive, and responsibly caught is not better for the fish, than cheap, plentiful, and captive bred.

 

[clownfish454]

i see your point,and agree

 

[clownfish454]

on the other hand they might not be so easy to come by if they were wild vs tank raised

 

[maddyfish]

on the other hand they might not be so easy to come by if they were wild vs tank raised

I think that is a good thing, if I have to drive four hours to get a fish, I am certainly going to value and care for that fish. Also, people who were not commited to caring for the fish, would not get it.

 

[FFFrog]

I dont think having money makes you more responsible. DO you also think we shouldnt frag are corals and only collect from the wild. I'm proud to raise my clownfish and sell them. I do worry about them since so many people buy them that dont no how to care for them, but that is out of my hands. I think alot of wild caught fish are stressed alot more than my fish that are never shipped.

 

[maddyfish]

Frags traded between responsible reefkeepers are ok. Most people who trade or buy frags from hobbyists are capable of caring for them. If corals become unreasonably cheap, so cheap that people completely unprepared to care for them buy them, then maybe limited availability would be good. For instance:
Florida condy anemones, at my LFs they sell for $5.99. I will bet you 99% of them suffer and die under normal output lights. If they sold for $49.99, then average Joe would not buy them. Even if the LFS employee tells them about their light needs they are so cheap average Joe thinks "who cares I'll buy another one next week"
I am not rich, but I do think that co$t weeds out the unprepared hobbyist.

 

[FFFrog]

I can tell you i pay less for frags then fish. GO to monfort aquarium on colerain and you will find frags for 10-15.

 

[maddyfish]

I would say that is too cheap, and if corals can suffer, then most of those corals suffer and die at the hands of the inexperienced.

 

[FFFrog]

You sound like a store owner that wants to raise prices maddyfish.

 

[maddyfish]

I wish I had my own store, but I'd go out of buisness. I would not sell someone an animal that they are not prepared for, and I'd tell people the truth. That would set me apart from 95% of LFS.

I say again: Co$t weeds out the uprepared.

 

[clownfish454]

again i agree with maddfish.exept for one thing i dont think higher prices will compleatly fix the problem what if you have all the money in the world and are able to buy at higher prices that is not going to stop some body from doing research the real fix is people changing and not just going in to it blindly and put up a sw system because they look cool salt water systems are a hobby not a toy

 

[ozadars]

First of all, wild caught fish are generally less expensive than captive bred ones (compare the prices http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=27), they are also hardier and they slow down the number of the collected marine fish from the oceans which is very important in my opinion because many people could still buy them even if they were more expensive than the captive bred and many of them die during shipping or catching which is worse than kids killing captive bred ones.

 

[CodeBlue]

Should we then only consume wild caught fish. Since farmed salmon cost me $3.00 a pound, would it be better if it cost $15 to 20 a pound so people would not eat as much? What is the difference between aquarium fish and food fish? I know many people will not like this, but a fish dying does not concern me much. They do not have a higher level of awareness. I take care of my fish and have only lost them to conditions beyond my control. On the other hand I do not stay awake at night knowing that people want to put nemo in a 1/2 gallon bowl or that someone has 5 tangs in a 60 gallon tank. Tang police, are you there?

 

[wayne in norway]

Doubling the cost of fish would probably help people act a bit more resonsibly in my opinion , and would certainly help knock back the concept of 'learning by killing some cheap fish' (alias cycling)

 

[bad2]

This hobby is expensive enough i wouldnt want to be paying even More for fish then i already do. I think the best way is to have store explain things better to people. If the LFS explains whats needed and makes sure the person has it then thats better then Ripping the Responsible people off.

 

[clownfish454]

so what happens when the prices go up?then we who are already responsible enough have to suffer for the people who dont have a clue what the're doing.and i recomend every body to this site wether they know it all, or know nothing at all.i think if people took a little time to go on fourms like this it would help the unresponsible people just like it helped me.for those of you dont already do this,recomend this site to people you see in lfs or where ever.mabe it will help.instead of talking about it we need to do something about it!

 

[wayne in norway]

The people who are on this site aren't the problem - but the acts of people who reat fish as disposable will affect us very directly.
If it means pricing up to get rid of pretty glass boxes of death, so be it. Fish are the least expensive thing in this hobby

 

[ozadars]

Ofcourse pricing up cant be possible because no one can decide on the price of the fish all around the world. Also if prices of marine fish increases, prices of freshwater fish, reptiles, birds and other exotic animals should increase too as they suffer from the same problem.

 

[Loralie]

Unfortunatly foolish mean people have money. To most it wouldn't matter if nemo cost 14.99 or 79.99. If their kids were screaming wanting it they would buy it. I recently attended the Dr. Foster's frag swap and had the pleasure of speaking with and enjoying a discussion with Julian Sprung concerning the ethics of our hobby. I was amazed at what he had to say and gained a better understanding of our place in the big picture. All in all he emphasized our hobby has put a value to the reef itself. I some of the costal countries they use the "live rock" groung up to make roads. They get $60 to $80 per ton of rack. However in the reef keeping trade they can sell the same rock for $6000 to $8000 per ton. There for making it a more precious commodity. they can harvest less on gain more. Same goes for the fish. The other problem is some of the largest breeding fishes being captured and sold in Asia. He also stated the single largest cause of the "dying reef " is HEAT! The global warming is killing reefs at an alarming rate. We know what a temp spike in our tanks can do...imaginge that on a larger scale. I am in Minnesota and we haven't had good snow in years. Our winters are much warmer, the warming is planet wide, and the bleached white reef's are a prime example of the global warming.

 

[Broodingwolf]

I agree with Loralie. Unfortunately, driving up the cost wouldn't nesc. keep people who are careless with another animal's life out of the hobby. Just like you see expensive pure bred dogs at the animal shelter, you would have 80$ nemo's dying.