RGB LED questions need advanced help

[NanoReefWanabe]

i have this controller http://www.ltech.cn/english/product/LED-color-t3x-touch-Controller.html
LTECH LT-T3

i have this receiver
LTECH LT-T3 model T3-5A which can be found on the same link above

and i have this Driver
Meanwell CLG150-12 http://www.meanwell.co.uk/clg-150-12.html

i am trying to hook up a natural wonders brilliant wonders LED waterfall to the above equipment…(this driver controller and remote are what came with the water fall so i assume they are pretty much plug and play…

my main question is is there enough room left on the driver and controller to also control about 6-9 RGB deck lights as well? or would i need to buy a separate receiver? and if i can hook it all together, how would i wire the deck lights to the controller and the waterfall?

would the deck lights be simply daisy chained to each other or would i have to brach off the controller 10 ways or so with a terminal block. most of the RGB deck light s say they are 12v 350mA but i don't know if that is per colour per light assembly etc…i have no idea how the RGB LEDs work…

the deck lights i am looing at are something like these
lumenstar http://www.lumenstarled.com/rgb-led-puck-lights-strips-controllers/rgb-led-step-lights/rgb-led-step-deck-light1.html

the stats on the receiver say it is a three channel x 5A each to a max of 15A, yet i only see four outputs one for each colour plus a +, i assume that is what it means by 3 channel….
i will try to post some links for the items i have. although i cannot find any info on the waterfall unit.

 

[oreo57]

i have this controller http://www.ltech.cn/english/product/LED-color-t3x-touch-Controller.html
LTECH LT-T3

i have this receiver
LTECH LT-T3 model T3-5A which can be found on the same link above

and i have this Driver
Meanwell CLG150-12 http://www.meanwell.co.uk/clg-150-12.html

i am trying to hook up a natural wonders brilliant wonders LED waterfall to the above equipment…(this driver controller and remote are what came with the water fall so i assume they are pretty much plug and play…

my main question is is there enough room left on the driver and controller to also control about 6-9 RGB deck lights as well? or would i need to buy a separate receiver? and if i can hook it all together, how would i wire the deck lights to the controller and the waterfall?

would the deck lights be simply daisy chained to each other or would i have to brach off the controller 10 ways or so with a terminal block. most of the RGB deck light s say they are 12v 350mA but i don't know if that is per colour per light assembly etc…i have no idea how the RGB LEDs work…

the deck lights i am looing at are something like these
lumenstar http://www.lumenstarled.com/rgb-led-puck-lights-strips-controllers/rgb-led-step-lights/rgb-led-step-deck-light1.html

the stats on the receiver say it is a three channel x 5A each to a max of 15A, yet i only see four outputs one for each colour plus a +, i assume that is what it means by 3 channel….
i will try to post some links for the items i have. although i cannot find any info on the waterfall unit.

I'll start but not finish..
THIS is what you have to work with..

Input voltage DC12V-DC24V
Max current load 5A×3CH Max 15A
Max output power 180W/360W(12V/24V)

Each "channel" is a color, and depending on the power demand of the waterfall (which you don't have) you can't go on..........

I would have suspected 3 plus a "minus" so as to have a common ground..so that in itself is confusing.

The meanwell driver is not needed.. as that is TC-5V IS a driver.. a constant voltage driver..

In order for the RGB deck lights to work they would have to also be 4 wires.. 3 colors and 1 "common"..
Each wire would carry 350ma/3 or approx. 116mA

9 would add 1A to each channel.. ALL run in parallel so all 4 wires need to be run for all 9 lights to the "driver"..

BUT you need to know the waterfall current demand BEFORE anything else can be considered..and they don't seem to want to tell you that..It could be measured ..

http://www.c-m-p.com/cmp/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/LED-NEW-Controller-Instructions-.pdf

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

or possibly a light like this one…
http://www.amazon.ca/FOME-Underwater-Waterproof-Fountain-Landscape/dp/B00MB8LW4W/ref=sr_1_71?ie=UTF8&qid=1411437634&sr=8-71&keywords=underwater+led+lights

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

that is a great start thank you oreo …the controller i have is only a controller…it needs a 12V + & - signal..which is then manipulated with the remote.

so i just pulled the waterfall apart, it has a 24" piece of intertek flexible strip light in it…there are 38 dies on the piece…i m not sure which dies they use though and they are all RGB dies…lol does that help?

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

9 would add 1A to each channel.. ALL run in parallel so all 4 wires need to be run for all 9 lights to the "driver"..

oh god that means i need to run 36 wires to the controller plus the 4 from the waterfall"¦i only have a 1/2" conduit to run the wires through"¦can i use CAT5 cable? or something similar?

if i were to run strip lights to the arbour instead of the LED spot lights"¦i would need three pieces of strip lights about 7' long each"¦would they be connected one tot he other and only run 4 wires back to the controller?

http://www.usledsupply.com/shop/flex-strip-by-the-foot-waterproof.html
i think i would need a separate controller for strip lights.

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

that is a great start thank you oreo "¦the controller i have is only a controller"¦it needs a 12V + & - signal..which is then manipulated with the remote.

so i just pulled the waterfall apart, it has a 24" piece of intertek flexible strip light in it"¦there are 38 dies on the piece"¦i m not sure which dies they use though and they are all RGB dies"¦lol does that help?

they are all SMD 5050 chips

 

[oreo57]

they are all SMD 5050 chips

your count is "odd"..
30 or 33 or 36 should be a more common configuration.. so for the sake of guesstimating I'll go w/ 39

.06A per group of three x11 = .66A (660mA) total

so err-ring on the high side your waterfall uses 220mA per channel..
If you only have one bar..

As to the orig. lights you can splice the lights in to each other running only 4 all the way to the controller..

My mistake..You can run the "pucks" like this really crude drawing showing only the blue channel:

your "pucks" only contribute .02A per color per piece.
So 9 would be 180mA per channel..

Roughly all you would need is .5A per channel and you have 5A available

As to wire size.. you have very low current but fairly long runs.. 18ga may work.. pretty standard "irrigation" wire gauge..


Actually the controller is more than a controller.. it is a constant 12V voltage "source" as well.. says so CV..

The LED's use resistors to limit the current.. and you are freed up from using a switching power supply on the "power supply"..
I "believe" class 2 power supplies are not "stable" enough to run LED's in this manner by themselves..Though they may be..
What you want is a 12v switching power supply..

If it was nothing but a controller it would not have to be nearly that big...

a couple of loose ends:

Oddly enough they don't list what the amp rating of the class 2 should be..(12V 2A should be enough for this)
Second we are making an assumption on the voltage output of the "controller" I think.. There is a chance the output voltage is higher (or lower) than 12V..
Run the waterfall light and test voltage across one of the channels ..say blue to "plus" w/ the light on full..
Though from the separate "controller" aspect ..seems fine:

T3-5A CV Receiving controller
Input voltage DC12V-DC24V
Max current load 5A×3CH Max 15A
Max output power 180W/360W(12V/24V

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

i assume the mean well is to be used as my power source..since it puts out 12V 11A.

i ended up getting a really good deal on 14awg wire…it is single wires though but i got 50' in each red blue brown and yellow (green wasn't on sale???) for 8$ a roll…i measured today my last light furthest from the controller will be 47' away…i also bought a bunch of shrink wrap and a 40' of 1/2" expandable wrap (nylon stuff that gets tighter when you pull on it.)

so i think i am good to go know…from what you are saying if i m reading correctly i have plenty of headroom on the controller and very little to worry about…i could try to test the leads on the waterfall i guess…would i do that on the 12VDC setting on my MM, and just measure across the + and a colour lead right on the controller? the LED string is IP68 fully encased in rubber so no way to test anywhere along the string.

the thing that confuses me though is that the controller is capable of putting out 5A per channel and i only need a total of barely 2A total, what happens to the other 13A? i always though LEDs would simply pass what ever current went to them hence why you have to be so careful not to overdrive regular crees etc….say past 1A….or like the UV or red chips not to go over 750mA...

 

[oreo57]

i assume the mean well is to be used as my power source..since it puts out 12V 11A.

Yes. seems so.. It fits..

so i think i am good to go know…from what you are saying if i m reading correctly i have plenty of headroom on the controller and very little to worry about…i could try to test the leads on the waterfall i guess…would i do that on the 12VDC setting on my MM, and just measure across the + and a colour lead right on the controller? the LED string is IP68 fully encased in rubber so no way to test anywhere along the string.

I don't think you have to bother.. What I don'tget is did you decide not to use the deck lights.. (puck style) and go w a large string LED??

the thing that confuses me though is that the controller is capable of putting out 5A per channel and i only need a total of barely 2A total, what happens to the other 13A? i always though LEDs would simply pass what ever current went to them hence why you have to be so careful not to overdrive regular crees etc….say past 1A….or like the UV or red chips not to go over 750mA...

Over time (not just here) I've tried numerous times to explain it "differently" than the textbook.. "LED's are current controlled devices" because most people don't exactly see this correctly, or forget that the current through the LED is dependent on voltage...

anyways I found someone else who states it in a coherent manner..

The debate of current controlled vs voltage controlled is semantics in my opinion.

They are strictly related and one-to-one. If you have 1 V at 1 mA you will have 1 mA at 1V.
Diodes (and hence many semiconductor devices) are considered current controlled because it is very straightforward to pretend the voltage is constant and set current by the circuit and much more complicated to fix a voltage to get the current you want. It's simply how the non-linearity is set up, where tiny changes in voltage create huge changes in current necessitating very high accuracy if you want to control it with voltage.

http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/leds-are-current-driven.39855/


Every piece of LED you have been contemplating hooking up has, somewhere, a "current limiting resistor" keyed to a 12V supply..

An LED brightness is current driven as long as the forward bias voltage is met. If an LED has a forward voltage of 2V then any increase in voltage will be useless, as the forward voltage will remain 2V. In the real world it does increase slightly, but lets ignore this for the moment.

The increased voltage will be dissipated over the current limiting resistor, causing the resistor to get hot. Now, according to Ohm's law this WILL increase the current, but this is inefficient due to excess energy being converted to heat. The right way to increase the brightness is to decrease the resistance of current limiting resistor, thus increasing the brightness. Thus, an LED is current driven.

The brightness of an LED is more or less proportional to amount of current supplied and LESS proportional to the voltage.

Stated another way, current can't exist without voltage, but any increase in current will have the same increase in brightness, an increase in voltage will not have the same increase in brightness.

now shifting to Costant current drivers for a minute:
So w/ constant current drivers, the driver will increase the potential (voltage) across the LED to supply the current it is set to.. IF the LED can't take that current, it will overheat...

A bit more on LED's..
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_3/12.html

Diodes are funny things..

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

I don't think you have to bother.. What I don'tget is did you decide not to use the deck lights.. (puck style) and go w a large string LED??

thank you your help is greatly appreciated, not many would actually take the time out to put together coherent answers like you have"¦

i was contemplating it, but i think i have found supplier of the 12V RGB deck lights that i like"¦very hard to find them in a 2-3" size

i think i understand the current voltage diode thing a little better now"¦lol"¦but for now i think i will just twist red to red green to green (err yellow) blue to blue and brown to brown"¦

i guess fortunately for me there is no way to screw up how they are wired"¦there is only four colour wires coming out of each puck"¦

again thank you for taking the time

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

Okay these are the lights I have on order. ..I am still good with everything you have calculated?
http://www.lumenstarled.com/rgb-led-step-deck-light1.html